Bowers on collecting: Focus on Trade dollars

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By Q. David Bowers

Trade dollars have always been one of my favorite series. In the years leading up to the 1993 publication of my United States Silver Dollars and Trade Dollars, A Complete Encyclopedia, I spent a lot of time researching these. Today, that study stands as the standard source for information.

Coming up in March at the Whitman Coin Expo in Baltimore will be a beautiful specimen of the 1885—one of just five known to exist! As the time approaches, all eyes will be fixed on this landmark event.

Although the 1884 (10 known) and 1885 are legendary rarities, other varieties are readily collectible, including Proofs of each year from 1873 to 1883, and circulation strikes from 1873 to 1878. Of these, the 1878-CC is the most elusive.

If you are seeking a new specialty, consider Trade dollars. You’ll enjoy the experience!

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Comments

  1. cagcrisp says

    Pertaining to eBay sales of the 2019 Reverse Proof Palladium American Eagle…

    Here is eBay sales of one dealer ( Liberty Coins) that Currently has 10 Available…

    US $1,999.38 1 Nov-26-19 07:17:26 PST
    US $1,990.06 1 Oct-22-19 19:14:52 PDT
    US $1,988.00 1 Oct-10-19 22:21:31 PDT
    US $1,858.82 1 Oct-05-19 13:32:39 PDT
    US $1,858.82 1 Oct-05-19 12:16:45 PDT
    US $1,858.82 1 Oct-05-19 04:07:52 PDT
    US $1,858.82 4 Oct-04-19 16:21:05 PDT
    US $1,858.82 3 Oct-04-19 16:12:58 PDT
    US $1,865.51 1 Oct-04-19 09:28:43 PDT
    US $1,869.62 1 Oct-04-19 08:44:23 PDT
    US $1,981.31 1 Oct-03-19 07:04:19 PDT

    Considering that Launch price was $1,987.50, I don’t see Any profit on these…

  2. cagcrisp says

    The 2018 Palladium coin you Should have bought vs. the 2019 Palladium coin you should Not have bought…

    The coin you Should have bought:

    Liberty Coins has the 2018 Proof Palladium coin for sale on eBay for $2,605.14 ($1,387.50 CU Launch day)

    The coin you should Not have bought:

    Liberty Coins has the 2019 Reverse Proof Palladium coin for sale on eBay for $2,337.98 ($2,537.50 Currently for sale directly from the Mint).

    …SO…Because there was Initially 16,690 of the 2019 Reverse Proof Palladium sold Launch Week @ $1,987.50, there is a Boatload of people willing to sell Under Current Mint Pricing just to get OUT…

  3. KEITHSTER says

    Have a few Trade$ they are one of my favorites. Yesterday I think I may have gotten the last single 1/2 AGE proof 2019? Was on site and there it was was going to check to see how many they had but thought again and snapped it up. Then went to look and they were gone! So did anybody see when it came on or if there were more? Any one else get one yesterday? Well Hang In There And Good Luck All “>”>”> 0

  4. DaveSWFL says

    The 2018 palladium coins on eBay are ASKING price. None are selling in OGP for that price. A graded 69 did sell for $2095 on Jan 7.
    The coin I had listed at $2548 OBO for months only managed to garner a maximum offer of $1700 with spot at over $1900. There is no demand for the coin. I withdrew the coin today and taking it to my LCS.

  5. DaveSWFL says

    Look at the 5 year platinum chart on and you will see a chart going parabolic (IMHO). Who knows how high it’ll go, but I’M OUT.

  6. CaliSkier says

    Cag, you replied previously, “ @CaliSkier says,”At what PM price should/does one sell off their 2018 PF APdE? Prices seem to be at or below spot on EBay.”

    1. eBay 10% + PayPal 2.9%
    2. Sales taxes, sales taxes, sales taxes

    Example: One sells a 2019 Reverse Proof Palladium American Eagle at Spot on eBay”

    How about the same analysis, using the 2018 PF APdE(1,389.50), I’d referred to, if you don’t mind? Thanks

  7. CaliSkier says

    Not sure when the Historical London fix changes, however Pd closed at $2,220! Will we see next weeks 2019 RPF APdE go up another Hundo?

    Good ? So Krates re: the $50 vs$25 dollar spread on Pd bid ask price! Perhaps a typo or maybe $2,200 triggers a higher spread??? Anyone? Bueller, …….Bueller?

  8. John Q. Coinage says

    All up today!

    Gold Ask $1,557.07 +$9.94
    Silver Ask $18.04 $0.20
    Platinum Ask $1,024.12 +$39.15
    Palladium Ask $2,286.85 ++$72.30

  9. KC&SO says

    Look at the 10 year platinum chart on and you will see a chart in which a bunch of Platinum collectors are loosing their @R$E! Unfortunately…,

    Who knows how high the dead cat bounce will bounce.., but I’M OUT.

    🥺

    DaveSWFL – thanks for posting your PT sale experience, I’ve been wondering what happens when spot increase to over previous numismatic value.

  10. DaveSWFL says

    LCS at $2075 at 11 am today for the $2018 proof palladium coin in OGP. That’s equal to eBay sale at $2400 net of fees and shipping.
    I wonder if eBay is on the way out as America’s reseller.

  11. CaliSkier says

    $2,288 Pd spot currently! Ratio 1 oz gold equals.68 oz of Au! If this keeps up, next week will have a 3-4 tier($150-$200) jump in Mint price. How much further can it possibly go???

  12. HarryB says

    @DaveSWFL: thanks for the report in selling your 2018 palladium proof in OGP. I was wondering if anyone had observations from the FUN show on sales of 2017-2019 palladium coins.

  13. cagcrisp says

    @ DaveSWFL says,”I wonder if eBay is on the way out as America’s reseller.”

    It Depends.

    Spot value vs. Numismatic value.

    In the case of the Current state of Palladium pricing, Spot pricing has far Outpaced Numismatic value for both the 2018 Proof Palladium and the 2019 Reverse Proof Palladium .

    When that happens, then Yes a LCS offering 5% back of Spot Palladium will be better than the 12.9% charged by eBay and PayPal (and considering in most cases the buyer is cutting back on offering purchase prices because of sales tax).

    This happens when you’re selling for Spot value.

    Just the opposite effect will happen if you go to a LCS and try to sell the 2019 Reverse Proof American Silver Eagle.

    Current LCS offerings for the 2019 Reverse Proof American Silver Eagle are much less than Current selling prices on eBay…

  14. cagcrisp says

    Just for a reference point…

    Currently a LCS offering for a NGC PF70 2019 Enhanced Reverse Proof American Silver Eagle is ~ $1,200.00.

    Currently eBay pricing for a NGC PF70 2019 Enhanced Reverse Proof American Silver Eagle non show non signed non low number is $1,850.00 to $1,950.00…

  15. CaliSkier says

    Today the bid/ask difference on Pd is $100? Yesterday it was $50? Typically it’s been $25? So Krates brought it up that he’d noticed and wondered why the change? I’m also quite curious, as well?

    Anybody out there have any idea? I thought that the jump to $50 might have been a typo? Now after seeing another jump to $100, I don’t think that’s the case?

  16. DaveSWFL says

    Palladium bid in a $270 range today but the spike down did not last long.
    Bid – ask premiums :
    Gold $1
    Platinum $5
    Rhodium $50
    Palladium $100

    Premium rises as scarcity of available supply contracts.
    Same concept held for silver in its rapid run up to $50.

  17. So Krates says

    Have the eBay prices for 19XE in 70 stabilized? Over the last week or so here are some of the lowest prices realized:

    $1650
    $1631
    $1099
    $1800
    $1782
    $1692
    $1736
    $1699

  18. cagcrisp says

    @CaliSkier says,”Anybody out there have any idea? I thought that the jump to $50 might have been a typo? Now after seeing another jump to $100, I don’t think that’s the case?”

    Volatility

    Anytime you have something that is thinly traded and you have volatility , then the spread will Increase.

    It wasn’t uncommon to have a $.50 spread on Silver back in 2011…

  19. John Q. Coinage says

    Pd has a thin market subject to swing on premiums. But, bullion bars were good I sold some for $1,750 when Pd was @ $1,880 a couple of weeks ago, wow I lost some $, but did ok. That was $100 back of spot on Suisse Credit bars. I think the $2,070 for a coin, with spot @ $2,280 seems even larger like almost 10%…. In the end, Ithink Pd will keep going p until supply returns or alternative$ ari$e……
    Cag’s is right volatility is a factor, LCS or big boy they don’t want to be hit with a sharp sell off holding a bunch of metal. Or they play roulette…..
    As to taxes on cois/bullion Ebay os so dead to me it aint funny. YOU can find out of state sellers who don’t charge tax, you just need to report it to your local authorities to pay you use tax….

  20. DaveSWFL says

    John Q,
    At the time I agreed to sell to myLCS, the palladium spot was only $2180. So their offer was just under 5% below spot. I felt that was fair, especially when I got only 2 offers in several months listing with eBay.

  21. John Q. Coinage says

    Dave then it seems very fair! I have sold Pd for ‘around” 100 back of spot but it can climb. Only thing will be if Pd goes to $3k…$4k…..v. $1k or less in the future. Who knows!!!! And as Erik noted the blaizing color of the 1884 Trade $1 are simple awesome!!!

  22. datadave says

    Looks like the house approved the Bush dollar and first spouse gold coin for this year. With the high price of gold we are probably looking at a new Low Mintage Wonder in that series.

    On another topic, the lack of sales data will hurt the US Mint’s sales! This is just another example of their incompetence. They cannot hire (or retain) someone that can publish these numbers.

  23. datadave says

    OT – When I first started using eBay (in 1998) the total cost was around 3% and you had to send or receive a check (no charge) to complete the transaction. No sales tax was involved and the spread (3%) was much less than any LCS. Fast forward to now where the total transaction cost is about 20% (10 for eBay, 3 for paypal and 7 for the state) and I am ready to leave the hobby again.

    Is there another site to use that has lower costs? What if I just want to dump a bag of 5000 wheat pennies? What if I want to dump a complete set of Presidential dollar rolls? These low cost low margin coins are again disappearing from eBay because the 20% take is too high of a barrier to overcome. It seem like another site should come along and provide this service.

  24. Keep Calm & Move On says

    2019-W UNC $5 Gold American Legion 100th Ann. NGC MS70 FDI Flag Label

    Buy with Confidence & Free Shipping from Pinehurst!

    $1,185.00

    😂

    No wait….

    😃🤣🤣🤣🤣

  25. cagcrisp says

    @datadave says,”On another topic, the lack of sales data will hurt the US Mint’s sales! This is just another example of their incompetence. They cannot hire (or retain) someone that can publish these numbers.”

    From the United States Mint:

    “Regrettably, the cumulative sales figures still is currently unavailable. The issue had been escalated to Upper Management and at this time, no time frame has been provided on when it will be updated. I apologize for the inconvenience.”

  26. ips_stuff says

    So no mention of the other parabolic move… stock market? only Palladium.
    guess that is way of topic. but the cost of a transaction on wall street is way less than any Ebay transaction. Once the taxes kicked in the sales transactions declined for me. I have several auctions listed of variety of stuff (not just coins) and it is very quiet. I am thinking of buying naked puts on Ebay.

    Regarding U.S. mint – we know they have boxes of coins, they now enforcing the concept of “box of rocks” too. I wonder if they are just afraid to post figures?

  27. cagcrisp says

    The 2019 Reverse Proof Palladium American Eagle…

    Total of 40 verifiable OGP eBay sales Since Launch on September 12th, 2019:

    Mean sales for 40 verifiable OGP eBay sales Since Launch = $1,998.82
    Median sales for 40 verifiable OGP eBay sales Since Launch = $1,976.50

    Using 12.9% for eBay fees and PayPal fees for Average Joe selling on eBay without a store Assuming purchase price of $1,987.50:

    Mean Loss for 40 verifiable OGP eBay sales Since Launch = $246.53
    Median Loss for 40 verifiable OGP eBay sales Since Launch = $265.97

    Using 12.9% for eBay fees and PayPal fees and Using $1,987.50 for purchase price you Need eBay sales price of $2,281.86 for Break Even and getting OUT…

  28. cagcrisp says

    The Bid/Ask range has Now been changed to $150.00

    Current Bid = $2,408.00
    Current Ask = $2,558.00

  29. CaliSkier says

    Currently, the bid/ask range has Now been changed to $200.00

    Current Bid = $2,395.00
    Current Ask = $2,595.00

    Hmmm::..$3,000.00 next week???

  30. KC&SO says

    “Houston, we have lift off!”

    “Apollo mission ‘Palladium 3000’ has cleared earth’s atmosphere’”

  31. Old Big Bird says

    Well now we are 2 months and 2 weeks without sales numbers from the US Mint. And per Cagcisp post,

    “Regrettably, the cumulative sales figures still is currently unavailable. The issue had been escalated to Upper Management and at this time, no time frame has been provided on when it will be updated. I apologize for the inconvenience.”

    FINALLY!

    I am not sure who does what. I would assume the sales web-site is being handled by the US Mint and not the company in Memphis that is doing the distribution. I also assume,the US Mint is actually doing the production and they know what they are producing.and packaging up. I would then assume the US Mint is boxing up products and shipping it to the distribution company in Memphis. So those number should be on hand for the US Mint to use as their base set of numbers.

    Sales for the web-site and production from their own plants. Now I am also aware of items that may have fallen off the truck problems, which have been know to happen in the trucking industry.

    That brings us to where I believe the problem may lay. You have incoming inventory from the US Mint shipments, then picking items for shipment via packing list, and shipping, which if weighted should account that the product in the box is approximately the correct items based on total weight. You also have returns that either has to be marked as defected and should be destroyed or put back into inventory to be use as viable goods.

    This brings us down to an inventory count. Based on all that information you should come reasonably close to what items are on the shelve as inventory.

    Here is where the rubber hits the road so to say. My best guess that there is an unreasonable amount of missing inventory and the US Mint is trying to keep it quite and ion the down low as much as possible. If
    I and anywhere close then I would now assume the FBI and not an accounting firm involved.

    I know these are only my assumptions, but all of what I have mentioned is extremely likely to have happened.
    Just some of my thoughts

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