Democratic debate: Julian Castro, Beto O'Rourke try to break from pack onstage in Ohio

On Tuesday, Oct. 15, Texans Julian Castro and Beto O'Rourke took the Democratic presidential debate stage for the fourth time. The two were part of a group of candidates hoping Tuesday's debate wasn't their last. 

Twelve candidates — the largest pool on a single night yet —  participated in the debate at Otterbein University in Westerville, Ohio. The qualifications to make the cut for the October debate were the same as the debate in the month prior, meaning Castro and O'Rourke didn't have to worry about being excluded. 

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But come November, the qualifications are more stringent and the two Texans are still working to make it onto the stage. 

During Tuesday's debate, O'Rourke and Castro and O'Rourke tried to break out from the pack, O'Rourke in an exchange with South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg over the buy back of assault weapons and Castro with some pointed words about President Donald Trump.

The topics discussed ranged from the impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump — Tuesday's debate was the first since the inquiry began — to O'Rourke's bipartisan road trip with U.S. Rep. Will Hurd. 

The two Texans were joined on the stage by Former Vice President Joe Biden, New Jersey Sen. Cory Booker, South Bend, Indiana, Buttigieg, Hawaii Rep. Tulsi Gabbard, California Sen. Kamala Harris, Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, billionaire and activist Tom Steyer, Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren and entrepreneur Andrew Yang. 

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Addressing the impeachment inquiry

Right off the bat, each candidate was asked a question about the impeachment inquiry into Trump. Asked whether the inquiry is a distraction, Castro said "we can walk and chew gum at the same time."

Castro briefly pivoted to the economy before turning back to the inquiry. 

"He is ... in an ongoing way, violating his oath of office and abusing his power," Castro said. "We have to impeach this president, and the majority of Americans not only support impeachment, they support removal."

"He should be removed," Castro continued.

O'Rourke said "we have a responsibility to be fearless in the face of this president's criminality and his lawlessness."

"If there is not justice, not only have we failed this moment, our constitution and our country, we have failed everyone who has sacrificed and laid their lives down on the line," O'Rourke said. 

Automation and General Motors 

Castro said it's important to address communities impacted by automation, but said it's also important to make sure job opportunity is spurred for folks across the country. He said Ohio, where the debate is being held, is losing jobs under Trump.

"I would invest in infrastructure to put put people back to work," Castro said 

On Twitter, Castro called for "creative solutions to jobs lost to automation.

"I support piloting a Universal Basic Income program, but I don't think we should take away the entitlement programs that help keep working families afloat to do it," Castro wrote.

O'Rourke was asked about how he'd convince General Motors to bring production back to the United States. O'Rourke said he has met with members of the United Automobile Workers union striking in Ohio.

"What they want is a shot, and they want fairness in how we treat workers in this country, which they are not receiving today," O'Rourke said. "Part of the way to do that is through our trade deals, making sure that if we trade with Mexico, Mexican workers are allowed to join unions, which they effectively are unable to do today."

He said that is bad for Mexican workers and puts American workers at a competitive disadvantage.

O’Rourke criticizes Elizabeth Warren

Asked about his stance on the wealth tax and if it’s the best way to address income inequality, O’Rourke took the opportunity to criticize Elizabeth Warren, one of the front runners in the race.

“I think it’s part of the solution,” O’Rourke said of a wealth tax. “But I think we need to be focused on lifting people up and sometimes I think that Senator Warren is more focused on being punitive or pitting some part of the country against the other, instead of lifting people up and making sure the country comes together around those solutions.”

Warren, responding to the remark, said she’s “really shocked at the notion that anyone thinks I’m punitive.”

“I don’t have a beef with millionaires,” she said. “My problem is, you made a fortune in America, you had a great idea, you got out there and worked for it — good for you. … All I’m saying is you make it to the top, the top one-tenth of 1 percent, then pitch in two cents so every other kid in America has a chance to make it.”

The two went back-and-forth some before the moderator cut in for Castro to respond. He also said a wealth inequality tax is “part of the answer.”

Sen. Cory Booker, next to talk, said Democrats have “one shot” to make Trump a one-term president.

"How we talk about each other in this debate actually really matters," he said. 

O'Rourke, Buttigieg spar over gun control

O'Rourke and South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg sparred over gun control, particularly O'Rourke's proposal for the mandatory buyback of military-style assault weapons. 

The exchange began when O'Rourke was asked about how he'd enforce his "hell yes" support for the policy.

"I expect my fellow Americans to follow the law, the same way that we enforce any provision, any law that we have right now," O'Rourke said. "We don't go door-to-door to do anything in this country to enforce the law."

O'Rourke, after further pressing from the moderator, offered a bit more information on how the measure would work. 

"If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war, or brings it out in public and brandishes it in an attempt to intimidate ... then that weapon will be taken from them," O'Rourke said. "If they persist, there will be other consequences from law enforcement, but the expectation is that Americans will follow the law." 

Buttigieg was then asked about past criticism of O'Rourke related to the position. 

"Congressman, you just made it clear that you don't know how this is actually going to take weapons off the streets," he said. "If you can develop the plan further, I think we can have a debate about it but we can't wait. People are dying in the streets right now. ... We cannot wait for purity tests, we have to get something done."

Beto later responded that we should follow the "inspiration and lead" of groups like Moms Demand Action and March for Our Lives and "not be limited by the polls and the consultants and the focus groups." 

"I don't need lessons from you on courage, political or personal," Buttigieg replied.

Castro said he has problems with mandatory buybacks, the first being that "folks can't define it." 

"If you're not going door-to-door then it's not really mandatory," Castro said. "But also, in the places I grew up in, we weren't exactly looking for another reason for cops to come banging on the door." 

He referenced the shooting of Atatiana Jefferson, a black woman who was shot and killed by a white Fort Worth police officer in her home. 

"I am not going to give these police officers another reason to go door-to-door in certain communities, because police violence is also gun violence," Castro said. 

Addressing opioid addiction in America 

Asked a question about opioids, O'Rourke recounted hearing from a veteran who bought heroin off the streets after being prescribed opioids from the VA.

"Now, imagine if that veteran, instead of being prescribed an opioid, had been prescribed marijuana because we made that legal in America, ensured the VA could prescribe it, expunge the arrest records for those who have been arrested for possession and made sure that he was not prescribed something to which he would become addicted." 

Castro said he is in favor of sending drug company executives to prison.

"They need to be held accountable, not only financially but also criminal penalties," Castro said. 

Would Castro add more Supreme Court justices? 

Castro and other candidates were asked whether they'd support adding more justices to the Supreme Court to protect women's reproductive rights. Castro said he doesn't think adding more justices is a good idea.

"I wouldn't pack the court," he added. 

Castro said he thinks the "smarter move" would be to look at term limits or having people cycle off from the appellate courts. 

"So that you would have a replenishment of perspective," he said. 

Castro said he'd also make sure that, as president, he appoints "people who respect the precedent of Roe v. Wade." 

Castro on President Donald Trump

Castro did take the opportunity to target Trump during Tuesday's debate. When asked about gaining the trust of other countries, Castro said the first thing to do is "boot Donald Trump out of the Oval Office so that people can trust us again." 

"I also want people to think — the folks this week that saw those images of ISIS prisoners running free — to think about how absurd it is that this president is caging kids on the border and effectively letting ISIS prisoners run free," Castro said.

A bipartisan road trip 

The candidates were all asked the same question about a friendship they have that's surprising. O'Rourke, a former congressman, picked Republican Rep. Will Hurd, whom he traveled across the country with on a bipartisan road trip from San Antonio to Washington D.C. in March 2017. 

Hurd, who is not seeking reelection, represents Congressional District 23, which includes parts of both Bexar and El Paso counties. 

"We live streamed the conversation, a Republican and a Democrat finding out what we had in common," O'Rourke said. "By the end of that trip, not only had we formed a friendship, but had formed trust."

Castro didn't mention a specific name, but said the most interesting friendships he's had are with those who are different from him — including those who think differently than him. 

"I think that there's a value to that," Castro said. 

Ahead of the debate 

O'Rourke, a former congressman and El Paso City Council member, sent out a message to supporters Monday noting who had and hadn't qualified for November. In the fundraising message, he told supporters November's debate would be the most important yet. 

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"Why? Because millions of Americans who have not yet tuned in to this election will finally begin tuning in this fall," the email states. "And we need to make sure they see Beto up on that debate stage when they do." 

O'Rourke and Castro had both met the donor requirement as of Oct. 6, according to the New York Times, but are behind on the polling mark. The candidates must poll 3% or higher in at least four approved national or early state polls or 5% or higher in two early state polls.

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On Monday, Former HUD Secretary Castro rolled out a list of 58 endorsements, including those of current and former elected officials and advocates. Former state rep. Norma Chàvez, an El Pasoan, and former state Sen. Leticia Van De Putte were among the names on the list. 

Eleanor Dearman covers the Texas Capitol and politics for the USA TODAY Network Austin Bureau and the El Paso Times. She may be reached at 361-244-0047; edearman@elpasotimes.com; @EllyDearman on Twitter.