Speaker 1: You are listening to the regular version of Sexy Marriage Radio, smr.fm. You've turned on Sexy Marriage Radio, where the best sex happens in the marriage bed. Here's your host, Dr. Corey Allan.

Corey Allan:  Welcome back to another episode of Sexy Marriage Radio, where again, we’re going where the SMRnation wants to go. 

Pam Allan: Are we now? 

Corey Allan: Absolutely 

Pam Allan: Ok

Corey Allan: Cause we’re talkin’ about sex. We’re talkin’ about marriage. 

Pam Allan: Deal

Corey Allan: We’re talkin’ about the issues that happen and those are the emails that come in. Those are the voicemails that come in.

Pam Allan: Perfect

Corey Allan: Because you know if sex was easy, and if there was quick solutions to this thing, there would be one magazine sold. Right?

Pam Allan: Oh like one episode of one magazine?

Corey Allan: Right? Cause it would say 52 ways to whatever. That’s it. 

Pam Allan: Done.

Corey Allan: Done. Check it off the list. But it just doesn’t work that way.

Pam Allan: No it does not.

Corey Allan: Because there’s a whole lot more going on and that’s what we talk about here at Sexy Marriage Radio. Is we wanna speak to what goes on in your marriage. So you can let us know. We’re asking for your voice, please. 214-702-9565. Or make a voice recording and email it to us. Or just email your question. We’ll take ‘em all. At feedback@sexymarriageradio.com. Because this is listener driven radio. We want to help. 

Pam Allan: We do. 

Corey Allan: And we want to be involved. And that’s kinda been the thread all the way through. And the way we want you involved is we want you to join us on the platform at my.smr.fm. 

Pam Allan: Mm-hmm.

Corey Allan: Join the conversations that are taking place there. You can jump into the Academy levels and get extended content and there’s even more that you can find. And then also please rate and review, subscribe, spread the word, because the nation is what’s helped us keep going for over a decade now. That's fun to say.

Pam Allan:  That is fun to say.

Corey Allan: Well coming up on today’s regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio is a conversation I had with Dr. Kelly Casperson.

Pam Allan: Mm-hmm.

Corey Allan: Who is an MD urologist.

Pam Allan: Ok 

Corey Allan: That deals with just a lot of the issues that come up in sexual health, sexual function, men and women both. 

Pam Allan: Yeah

Corey Allan: So she’s got a unique skill set to just kind of begin to speak on what are some of the different things in this first segment we talk about the limiting beliefs. 

Pam Allan: Hmm. 

Corey Allan: Specifically, the “I’m not broken”

Pam Allan: Yeah. 

Corey Allan: Because a lot of times there’s this belief of there’s something broken, there’s something wrong. 

Pam Allan: That’s a head game right there. 

Corey Allan: Absolutely it is. So that’s where we go in the regular version today.  Just talking about these beliefs. Where do they come from? What do we do with them?

Pam Allan: I like it. 

Corey Allan: And then on the extended content today which is deeper, longer and there are no ads, you can subscribe at

 https://smr.fm/smracademy

We go into a deeper conversation based on the first segment of discovering and discussing where orgasms reside in the brain.  

Pam Allan: Interesting.

Corey Allan: It is such a fun exploration. All that’s coming up on today’s show. 

Corey Allan: Well I’m excited to bring a specialist, I guess is probably one of the great ways to describe you, Kelly, is Dr. Kelly Casperson is joining me today for Sexy Marriage Radio. Uh, she has an MD in urology, right?

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Yep. 

Corey Allan: Is what your speciality is?

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Yep. Urology. 

Corey Allan: And so I think you bring a unique skill set and a unique framework to the whole realm of marriage, sex, and just relationship dynamics. So this is going to be a fantastic conversation, Kelly. I’m already excited. So welcome to the show. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Thanks for having me. 

Corey Allan: So I was looking through some stuff that you’ve got and the show that you have. And you and I have a similar mission. Right? That it’s truly let's help people and let's help them get out of their own way. Let’s help some of the myths. Let’s help some of the.. you frame it as limiting beliefs. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Yep

Corey Allan: So walk me through what are the big ones you see that truly are limiting beliefs when it comes to the way people interact with life, interact with their sex life, interact in relationships. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Oh man, that’s so good. How much time do you have? We have so many limiting beliefs, right? The thing about beliefs is like we think they’re facts. Like that’s what our brain does. Our brain is like this is a fact when really it's just a thought you think over and over and over again whether you’re aware of it or not aware of it is a belief. Right?

Corey Allan: Right 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: And then we say a belief, a limiting belief is something that you’re like it’s actually kind of holding me back from whatever else could be out there.  Or ...

Corey Allan: Yeah. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Or even just a different way of looking at things which might serve you better than the way you’re currently looking at something. So that’s the way to break it down for what’s a limiting belief for somebody. Um. Limiting beliefs for sex ... there’s so many. Um. Sex should be easy. This shouldn't be hard. I should want spontaneous desire all the time. Um. You know. There’s just so many. And we just think they’re rules. Right?

Corey Allan: Uh-huh

Dr. Kelly Casperson: But they’re not rules. Like these aren’t actually like provable in the court of law. They’re just things we tell ourselves. That really we say what do you.. To try to start challenging a belief, you can say is this serving me? Right? Is a nice way to kind of just judge that belief. Is it serving me to think Iike I don’t want sex and I don’t like sex and sex is difficult and like all that stuff maybe it’s not serving you. What’s a different way of thinking about it? Um. And it’s a leap for some people to be like I can’t just start thinking sex is fun, right? It's not believable yet. 

Corey Allan: Right.

Dr. Kelly Casperson: But a thought of what we call bridge thoughts is I’m learning to explore sex in a different way. Oh that's believable. I’m going to listen to some podcasts and like actually start talking to my spouse about it. So it’s already a more believable thought, right? That thought helps your brain start looking at ways of like oh, How can I start learning about sex that might be fun? Cause your brain will start wanting to prove that thought true. Right? So it’s like whatever you feed it is very important because then it will start looking for proof for that. So those are some common limiting beliefs as far as sex goes that I see a lot. Oh another limiting belief: um, now that I’ve hit menopause, women just don’t like sex after menopause.  Nobody has sex in a long term relationship. So it’s ok that I don’t. Just kind of these beliefs you know that we don’t challenge.

Corey Allan: Well so, personally speaking, I’m hoping those two suckers are truly wrong beliefs because I’m in a long term relationship and menopause for my wife can’t be far away cause I’m 50 now so life is getting up there for us. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Life’s getting up there. 

Corey Allan: We’re now considered old to our kids. Um. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Yeah, average age of menopause in America and the UK is 51. Just for people.. I mean..

Corey Allan: Perfect

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Menopause is so not talked about, that like it’s good to sprinkle facts in there for people. 

Corey Allan: That’s we try to do at Sexy Marriage Radio all the way through. And I know that’s what you’re trying to do, too. One of the things I love.. um,  the limiting belief I saw right off the top that you…  is the whole that I’m broken. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Yes. Oh, yeah. Something’s wrong with me. 

Corey Allan: Something’s wrong. So therefore, I’m broken. Let’s talk about that because I think that is such a destructive thought process and belief. If I start to really own that. And I see that on two levels. Tell me … help me point out where I could be wrong or let’s refine it. Um. One is obviously an individual, right? And, if it’s the female or the male but I would put it most likely the lower desire partner comes across as well, I’m broken. There’s something wrong with me. But I think it also becomes a relational belief that now all the sudden the partner thinks that it’s them that’s broken. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Yes. 

Corey Allan: Now you’ve got all kinds of issues that can come from it. But let’s talk about the individual level first. And I think you lean yourself more towards working with the alot more the female population, yes?

Dr. Kelly Casperson: I tend to in my podcast and my female sex ed. I mean, as a urologist, I’m trained in male sexual functioning, right? So like, I get to come at it from a very any gendered perspective but … certainly what I thought was lacking was female sexual education, um, and equality, right? If we’re gonna give credence to his sexual function, we should give equal and opposite credence to hers. 

Corey Allan: Totally.

Dr. Kelly Casperson: So just by default, I do tend towards female. Absolutely.

Corey Allan: Ok so let’s go with that on the maybe let’s do men and women both, on maybe when that limiting belief comes in that I’m broken. Let’s unpack that. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Yeah, so when, we’ll say she feels broken, right, that limiting belief prevents you, like I said the brain tries to justify those thoughts, right, so if you’re broken, you might not be looking at ways you aren’t broken. Right? Like that simple thing of I’m actually really great as a mom, I’m actually really great as a partner. I love my feet. Like, whatever, you’re not like doing all of the things where you’re like there’s actually so much of you that’s not broken, number one. I would argue nobody’s inherently broken. I think we are all worthy as we are, without changing anything, um, so my belief is nobody’s broken. 

Corey Allan: Yep. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: But amongst the broken feeling, there’s so much that’s not broken, but if you think you’re broken, you’re not seeing all those other things. So I think that’s number one. 

Corey Allan: Ok

Dr. Kelly Casperson: With the spouse, say stereotypically the male spouse will come in and he’ll say she’s broken. She needs to be fixed. 

Corey Allan:  She’s the problem. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: She’s the problem. And what that does is number one it reinforces her belief that she’s broken. Cause look, the person I love the most is saying it. And number two, it absolves him of any work that he has to do. 

Corey Allan: Yep.

Dr. Kelly Casperson: In the relationship. 

Corey Allan: Yeah. And that’s where it starts to become so convoluted if you will because I mean Sexy Marriage Radio has a history of … I love it, some of my favorite listeners are the ones that have reached out to me saying hey I found you, and I started listening because I needed my spouse fixed. You know cause that’s a lot of the reason why people reach out for help cause yeah fix my spouse that’ll make my life and my plot in life a whole lot better. And then I would hear from them after a couple of weeks of listening. I hated you because you wouldn’t do anything about the spouse, you were only making me deal with me. And… duh… that’s what the whole point is. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Mission accomplished. 

Corey Allan: Exactly! But I love what you just said on the idea that the brain will kind of look for reasons to make it true, if you will. Of like, if I have this belief of I’m broken, then now all of the sudden it becomes this self fulfilling prophecy of yep, see that didn’t work. That just confirms the fact that I’m broken. And it doesn’t work. Rather than, how do you slow that down? How do you challenge that belief? How do you look at the other areas like you’re describing, and it really can round out your experience of wait, I could learn in this. I am capable of this because I’ve even proved it out maybe way way back in the past, but I have proved it. So what’s changed? And it’s just kind of at that level of discussing a dynamic inside you changes everything, right? 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Yeah, it’s really poking... I like to say I like to poke holes in thoughts, right? Of like, you can either let the sunshine in, or the water run through. And that is like all these thoughts that we take as facts and then we’re like is it actually serving us? And then with the whole broken thing, is like what are you not experiencing or going after in life because of your belief that you’re broken. Right? 

Corey Allan: Ok

Dr. Kelly Casperson: And it’s like the sky’s the limit once you figure out, like, oh, I’m as worthy as anybody else is of x, y, and z. Let’s go for it. 

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Corey Allan: So how do you then transition? The person that’s talkin about, they’re listening and thinking, ok I resonate with this. This is something I tell myself. What’s my first step? 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: I think the first step is just question the thought. Right? Of like, is it absolutely true? And that is what all the big thought leaders do with mindfulness and awareness. Just realize it’s a thought, even. 

Corey Allan: Yep. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Like, is it provable in the court of law? No? Ok. It’s a thought. It’s not a fact. And then you can start just questioning it and just seeing it as a thought and realizing I’m really hanging onto this thought. And you can just start playing with it like where did it come from? Oh, well it turns out that my second grade teacher called me a smartass in front of the entire class, and ever since then, I won’t speak up because I’m  super afraid of the second grade.

Corey Allan: Right

Dr. Kelly Casperson: And you’re like these thoughts aren’t even ours sometimes. They get put in there by other people. Then you can start lettin’ in the light. Lettin’ the water drain out. And like, start playing with it. Because again, making that leap from like I’m not broken to I’m amazing is like people don’t do that. If people did that, it’d probably be a different world. So we just have to start like you know poking holes in the thought, seeing where that thought came from, seeing how it might not be true, seeing if the opposite might be true. So you just really start playing with your thoughts. 

Corey Allan: Ok. And then I think you add that second question you had earlier of is this serving me?

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Is this serving me?

Corey Allan: Is this something that’s providing a lot of value or life or vibrancy? Or anything to my experience? Because if I can take a curious stance like you’re describing, I change everything. Rather than all the sudden I’m immediately judgemental and buying it. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Totally. And for the sex, if I feel broken in my sexual relationship, is that serving our relationship for me to just feel broken? Like, is that accomplishing anything? Well, no, it’s just kinda allowing me to sit in this pit of despair. So realizing it’s not actually serving my relationship for me to feel broken. So now what can we do about it?

Corey Allan: Right. So then let’s pivot it to the relationship dynamic because you’re talkin’ about the idea that a spouse comes in thinking we’ll fix them. That’s my issue, is them. That, I love the fact that when I get a chance to work with couples, and one of them really gets it, and they up their game, in a sense, and they really start questioning some things, it usually freaks the other partner out. Because all the sudden like wait wait wait, now there’s more required of me now, What my role in this has been is starting to become more seen and obvious and I don’t know if I like this. Which then that’s still limiting beliefs on their side. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Oh yeah. Yeah. Definitely. And it again, you know, stereotypically that’s how we have to summarize things, but stereotypically the male or the higher desire person just wants the other person’s desire to be brought up. Right? And when you really start questioning that higher desire person, you’re like are you really providing sex that they’re actually interested in? 

Corey Allan: Right

Dr. Kelly Casperson: How are you treating them day to day so that they’re actually interested in doing this with you? There is ownership on everybody in the relationship. It’s not one person that’s broken. 

Corey Allan: Right. No, not at all. So then if we go from that to this idea that if I’m broken and all the sudden I start to test out this fact that maybe I’m not, um, what’s the leap you’ve come across that people need to take where they haven’t seen it as this is something that’s for my enjoyment to where they can get to where you know, maybe I could really enjoy this. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Yeah, I think ...

Corey Allan: Because don’t we get caught in a lot of the duty, obligation, it’s really not for me, I mean that’s what culture has done badly in a lot of ways where it’s been male centered 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Yeah

Corey Allan: Way too much. And that’s totally disparaging and discouraging for women, but how do you get it to the changing of … no, no, this is for me… I can enjoy this. This is something that’s really good for me. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Yeah. Ok how I start is just part of it’s just the sex education, right, of like, we’re not even taught how to have sex so that the woman enjoys it, right? 

Corey Allan: Right

Dr. Kelly Casperson: And then we go around thinking she’s the broken one. Right? So a lot of it’s just education and being like this is how your body works. This is how things have kind of gone awry in heterosexual relationships. Just education. Cause it starts again poking holes of like maybe I’m not the broken one 

Corey Allan: Right. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Oh, I didn’t know that most people don’t have orgasms with penis in vagina penetration. Right? Like, good to know. So you just kinda feel less broken about it. And then it’s really that switch from being passive, or accepting sex onto you, to realizing you are a sexual being, you have agency, this is as much part of your enjoyment as it should be anybody else’s. It’s really that, and I always describe it as learning how to stand up, but it’s like learning how to own your space in it, cause women, again stereotypically in our society, we’re not encouraged to be sexual. Now I’m telling you you should enjoy sex? Like, you know, it’s a big leap. So you gotta get there slowly of like hey this is an activity that you have body parts designed for as much as anybody else does. But you’re not taught that that’s ok. So part of owning it is knowing it’s ok. We’re all sexual beings. We’re all deserving of this.  

Corey Allan: Yeah and in some cultures, because I’m thinking of some of the really religious, dogmatic legalistic side of things, um, not only is it something that you’re not taught that you’re a sexual being, but if you are taught it, you’re taught that that sexual prowess for a woman is dangerous. Right? And so therefore, you must be modest. You must, for the sake of the men who can’t control themselves, you must, hold on, that’s disparaging to every human. We are not part of the animal kingdom that we can’t control ourselves. Hopefully. I mean that’s … I think we all need to strive for that at least. Or nobody gets any work done, and it’s destructive to everybody. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Right

Corey Allan: So when you’re walking through this of just the education, what are some of the main things that you come across where when you start getting into the desire, that as cause you made the comment of menopause means, well, I’m done. I won’t enjoy this anymore. Let’s have the ceremony, and we’ll move on with a platonic relationship.

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Yeah. I mean I think what a lot of people don’t … it’s that stereotype right, or limiting belief, I guess it’s like old people don’t have sex. Our society doesn’t model it. We don’t see it in Hollywood. So we really have this belief that like well, I guess what we had in our 20s is as good as it’s gonna get. But when we read the research you know there’s this amazing book, what is it called, Magnificent Sex by Peggy Kleinplatz

Corey Allan: Yep

Dr. Kelly Casperson: It’s like older people, whatever that might mean for people, 50s, 60s, 70s, and above, have the best sex of their lives. So what can we learn from them. And number two, that just breaks down the barrier of like yeah, it’s over. It’s like no, no, no it can keep getting better but you have to work, not like work like ugh, but like it’s a skill, like you’re not good at tennis right away. Like, you keep working at tennis you’ll get better at tennis. 

Corey Allan: Right

Dr. Kelly Casperson: It’s another skill you can keep getting better at instead of this societal belief that old people don’t have sex so I guess that’s what we do. I mean the other thing just medically with menopause is things happen when we have low estrogen, they really do affect especially penis in vagina penetrative intercourse. We do have to take care of our skin. We do have to, I think replacing estrogen in the vagina, is very important. And people need to hear this right, cause where do we get this information from? Certainly the average doctor isn’t going to be like oh, you’re having great sex, you wanna keep that good? Consider vaginal estrogen as like preventative healthcare. 

Corey Allan: Yeah

Dr. Kelly Casperson: So it’s really important for people to know like what happens because of menopause doesn’t mean your sex life has to end. 

Corey Allan: Yeah, I can see the billboards already, Kelly. On the highway, vaginal healthcare, preventative healthcare. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Exactly. You know you like go along, you probably see this with you doing your podcast too, you go along and then you’re like I didn’t realize my purpose in life is just to tell people to use vaginal estrogen when it’s time. But I’m like it keeps coming back to like I guess that’s my mission in life. But yeah, like a limiting belief of if you’re just supposed to stop having sex once you hit a certain age, that’s gonna be a very different outcome than like hey I hear the vaginal tissues get dryer and more painful when we take estrogen away. What can I do to help prevent that? Right? So… it’s the way we think about things. 

Corey Allan: No, that’s huge because I hear it as you’ve kind of got both ends of the spectrum mission right now, right? Of it’s education. One of my favorite phrases on just we need to have a more accurate level of sex education for teenagers and kids, too, uh this is from the theorist I did all my training under Dr. Schnarch, he made the comment of if nothing else we got to reach the point to where when we talk about sex in a committed relationship to people that are younger than us, we need to explain to them the profoundness of what’s going on. Because, like in my case, I would say to my kids, you know, honey, or kids, your mom and I have been banging away at each other for 28 years and we still haven’t figured it all out, right? Because there’s so much more going on than just an act. When you start bringing into the equation, cause this is what I keep seeing with the research you referenced, that the elder we get into a relationship the better the sex is, because you’re more comfortable in your own skin. It’s not necessarily what you do or don’t do, it’s who you are. And who you bring to the party. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Yeah

Corey Allan: And there’s a difference in that. There’s less anxiety, there’s less awkwardness, there’s less you know some of that kind of stuff that’s just this is me. Here we go. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Yep

Corey Allan: And there’s some freedom there. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Totally. There’s so much freedom there. And again, that thought of you are not broken, like if you take the I’m broken into the bedroom, your orgasms are hiding. They are not there. Like, our body image, the way we view ourselves, kinda that what they call spectatoring, 

Corey Allan: Yep. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: You’re watching sex to make sure it’s going ok. Of like, that is not where good sex lives. That is not how the orgasm works in the brain neurologically. So there’s so much work to be done on that limiting belief and that body image and all that stuff to basically help liberate yourself in the bedroom. 

Corey Allan: Perfect. Well, Kelly, as we kind of wrap up this segment, how do… do... anybody in the Sexy Marriage Radio nation that’s listening to today’s show, how do they find more about you? Give them a little bit of a spiel to find you because I want people to find your information cause it is top notch. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Thank you. So on instagram, I’m Kelly Casperson, MD, same with my website, https://www.kellycaspersonmd.com/

My podcast is You Are Not Broken. And then the book’s coming out in 2022, You Are Not Broken, Stop Shitting All Over Your Sex Life. 

Corey Allan: That’s such a great title. I’m excited for that already. 

Dr. Kelly Casperson: Thanks

Corey Allan: Kelly, thanks so much for the time thus far. Um, and I can’t wait to continue the conversation here in just a minute. 

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Corey Allan: Well, I was humbled when I got on with Dr. Casperson to record this episode...

Pam Allan: Yeah, why is that?

Corey Allan: Uh, because she’s been doing this for about 2 years now. She’s, you know, getting started, got a good thing going, with her podcast.

Pam Allan: Yeah I was going to say in the podcast world. 

Corey Allan: Sorry. Good distinction.

Pam Allan: She’s been a doctor longer than that. 

Corey Allan: Yes she has. But she’s now getting into the podcast world because it’s a chance to help a lot more people. 

Pam Allan: Yeah

Corey Allan: And she referred to me as one of the uh, what did she call it, veterans at it. 

Pam Allan: Well, for 10 years. 

Corey Allan: For having been doing this for so long…

Pam Allan: Yeah. You are. 

Corey Allan: and even getting in well at the beginning of podcasting 

Pam Allan: Nice

Corey Allan: which is fascinating to think well, I’ve been around a long time which is humbling. And grateful for how this keeps going. 

Pam Allan: Well and you’ve been helpful to a lot of other people that are starting so and so wonderful that she could come on and help our listeners as well. So we love that community. 

Corey Allan: Yes

Pam Allan: Appreciate her being on. 

Corey Allan: Especially when we have the idea of a female, MD...

Pam Allan: Mm-hmm

Corey: Has a different viewpoint. Um, and it’s so funny because she said something off the air. I think. I don’t even remember if this was on the air or not. If you heard it, then this is a repeat. But if not, it’s off the air. She said, most people that are considered experts are the ones that are willing to say things over and over and over. 

Pam Allan: Right

Corey Allan: Right

Pam Allan: Well, it’s funny cause how many times do I hear things over and over and it takes about the tenth time to stick in my head. 

Corey Allan: Right. Well, that’s…  you’re not alone in that...that’s the truth of humanness. So this has been Sexy Marriage Radio, where if this is your first time here, we’re so glad you found us, and you stuck all the way through the episode, and if you’ve been here awhile, I’m glad you keep coming back, because maybe you’re among us that I just need to keep hearing it again. Maybe I’ll get it this time. So we hope you got it this time. If we left something undone, please let us know. 214-702-9565 or feedback@sexymarriageradio.com.  So however you have chosen to listen this week, thank you, and we’ll see you again next time.