Announcer: You are listening to the regular version of Sexy Marriage Radio, smr.fm.
You've turned on Sexy Marriage Radio, where the best sex happens in the marriage bed. Here's your host, Dr. Corey Allan.

Corey Allan: Welcome back to another episode of Sexy Marriage Radio, where we're having straightforward, honest conversations about married life, love, sex, the issues that we face, the successes that we get to celebrate.

Pam Allan: I think you covered it.

Corey Allan: That's all of it?

Pam Allan: I think you covered it.

Corey Allan: Okay. Well, that and so much more because here at Sexy Marriage Radio we believe that how you do life is how you do sex, how you do sex is how you do life.

Pam Allan: That's right.

Corey Allan: So we get windows into what's going on if we want to look at different aspects of our life at different times. We want to hear from you, speaking of windows. We want to know the little windows into your life and what we could speak to, what episodes we can cover, topics that you've got, questions you've got. Give us a call. (214) 702-9565 is how you can leave a voicemail. That gets you to the front of the line.
You can also send us any email at feedbacksexymarriageradio.com, where every email is read, answered, sometimes directly, sometimes they make their way onto the show. But this truly is, the SMR nation is listener driven radio, and what goes on here at Sexy Marriage Radio, because you help set the tone and shape where we go. The other way you help us out is by you jump on iTunes or Stitcher or Spotify or wherever you choose to listen, and you write a review and you leave right comment, and that helps spread the word far and wide, because we're trying to make people recognize married sex is hot.

Pam Allan: It absolutely can be, yes.

Corey Allan: Well, coming up on today's regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio is several of your questions and our answers. It's been awhile since we've been able just to jump into a potpourri of questions.

Pam Allan: Yeah, we've had a lot of guests on lately. It's been kind of fun. Some good content. But yeah, I'm looking forward to the potpourri.

Corey Allan: So today we are going where you want us to go, and then on the extended content today, which is deeper, longer, and there is no ads, you can subscribe at smr.fm.
A conversation started on Slack within the academy about desire and wanting and sexual attraction and attractiveness between a husband and a wife, and it really lit a fire among several people in the academy with just the dynamic that can happen as marriage goes on. So we're going to go deeper on talking it from my take. I've been involved in the conversation shortly, but figured we're going to go deeper with this in today's episode.

Pam Allan: That's good.

Corey Allan: So all that's coming up on today's show. So here's an email that came in Pam, from a husband that just says, "Hey, Corey and Pam, thanks for your wonderful show and advice. You've helped our marriage so much. Right now I'm asking for some specific advice. I'm a pastor, and as you can imagine, under quite a bit of stress. My wife has been fantastic in helping me. I normally do the cooking and dishes, cooking actually relaxes me, but she has forbid me from doing the dishes to take the load off of my back. She's working and going to school for accounting, and she's also been going above and beyond to help me during this difficult time. I wanted to show her how much I appreciate everything she's been doing, and I'm just wondering if he had any ideas. I've been trying to show her how thankful, but I feel like I could do more. Thanks for any ideas.

Pam Allan: So sweet. Sometimes we just don't feel like we can say thank you enough or whatever we do just as an express in words.

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: It doesn't express what we're really feeling down in our hearts.

Corey Allan: Right. Sometimes it's very difficult to convey the depth and the meaning that you might be experiencing based on the actions to support the engagement of somebody else.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Absolutely.

Pam Allan: Super wonderful. I mean, there's little things. It's just the little things in life of opening doors. Right? So, we think about that just being a gentlemanly thing to do, but no, that just shows appreciation. "Hey baby, I want to do this for you because I appreciate who you are." Have her favorite drink ready for her for dinner or something.

Corey Allan: Right. What she's doing for him in the idea of, "Wait, you can't do the dishes. I'm going to do them for you," because she's trying to convey here's a great way I can support.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Here's something I can do that can help. But then the other thing that we were talking about, because this is an all too common occurrence in married life a lot, right? How do I really help out my spouse when they're going through something a little more burdensome and a little more troublesome or stressful? Because I think we all have as human nature, "I would rather go through the struggle than watch someone I care about have to go through a struggle."

Pam Allan: True.

Corey Allan: So how do I jump in, because I feel powerless?

Pam Allan: True.

Corey Allan: Right? So how do I help? Sometimes it truly is helpful. Sometimes it's more tension. There's a lot of different things that happen, but he made the comment that she's also in school, so there's natural breaks that will be coming with whatever the semester or the models of the classes that they follow. So, what if during one of those natural breaks, whisk her away somewhere. It could be in your own town, too. I mean, I'm not talking about-

Pam Allan: It doesn't have to be a huge with a ton of money.

Corey Allan: No, it can be just a night out and make it this is all about my wife night. Of what are the little touchpoints, the nuances, the little things that really speak to her? Because I mean, for example, and I won't give specifics, but if I'm planning a date that is what I want to be doing with you, Pam, it's different than if I'm planning a date that I know you would love to be doing. There's overlap-

Pam Allan: Sure.

Corey Allan: But there's different things that we find really exciting, comfortable, enjoying, whatever.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: So make it about her, and even do some sort of a formal invitation to it, or set it up to surprise her. I mean, there's a bunch of different things you can do where you're kind of are marking a nice little anchor point of, "This is a way I want to celebrate what's going on in our life, the role that you've done and helped, and what's going on in mine." It's just all encompassing.

Pam Allan: Yeah. That's a loud acknowledgement of, "Hey, I see how hard you're working honey. I appreciate it." But it can just be little things, too.

Corey Allan: Absolutely.

Pam Allan: I don't care if it's having the bed folded down for her at night. It's, "Hey, welcome to your comfortable bed tonight."

Corey Allan: Yeah.

Pam Allan: Right?

Corey Allan: Yeah, little things. What are something that speak? Our spouses typically are giving signals. Just are we paying attention enough to really then respond to what are the little suggestions in moments that they bring up that then you could demonstrate, "I heard you, I heard that. I know." And then the other thing that jumps to my mind, he talks about he loves cooking, it relaxes him, but she wants to do the dishes. Do the dishes with her. Jump in and help. Make it a couple thing, too, if that's possible.

Pam Allan: I guess so. If that's something she wants to do to feel like she's taken the load off of him, there's nothing wrong with letting people do what they feel is good in serving others too. Right? Don't take something away from someone. So, that's where I struggle a little bit on that is if I want to do something good for you, Corey, don't take that away from me.

Corey Allan: Fair enough.

Pam Allan: I want to do that. But when we were talking beforehand, you had made the comment though that, "At what point do words carry their weight?" So, explain that.

Corey Allan: Right. So there is an element of ... There are points in our life where we need to let our words just carry the weight of the meaning, and the depth of it, the profoundness, the importance of it. That just to be able to clearly look a spouse in the eye and say, "I want you to know how grateful I am, how thankful I am. How much I love the fact that you are my life." Right? And making sure we say it cleanly and upfront can do wonders, because some people are truly the auditory type of that's how they receive love. It's not an act of service. Right? And that can be a disconnect of, "I'm trying to show how much I care about you and I'm doing all these little things," and to your spouse they're like, "Yeah, that doesn't mean anything to me."

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: What means to me is you sit down and you share an experience with me and we have a deep soul-to-soul conversation. So it's what are the touchpoints and the wirings of your wife, and make sure what you're trying to convey is funneled through that lens as much as possible, and let that be enough.
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Another email came in from a wife saying, "Hello, I love your podcast. It's been so helpful to someone who's only been married just over a year, so thank you."

Pam Allan: Oh, congratulations.

Corey Allan: So I have a slightly embarrassing problem, and I'm wondering if it's common and if there's anything that I could do about it. My husband and I have a really good sex life in so many ways, which I'm very thankful for. From the time we first got married my husband is wanting me to give me oral sex, but says that the taste is unpleasant. I've tried a few times over this year and it's basically the same. It's not that he's disgusted by the act, he's always very kind and sensitive about it, but I don't want him to do it if it's unpleasant for him. Plus, it's a little bit of embarrassment for me. I can live without oral sex, but I would like to be able to explore that experience further if possible, and it seems like my problem is unusual. Could the bad taste be an indication of a greater issue, and is there anything I can do to resolve it? Thanks for any help.

Pam Allan: Fabulous question, because here you are early on, you've got to figure this stuff out, right?

Corey Allan: Right. When you're venturing into something new, like this especially, there's a lot of, "I don't even know," because it's not something that's normally talked about. The only way you really learn about it is through experience.

Pam Allan: Right. Right. And so obviously, question number one that would come in with this is hygiene. What time of day are you doing this? If you've been going all day, you've got all the folds and skin down there. It's warm, it's moist, and so there is a scent, there is a muskiness to it.

Corey Allan: It's a muskiness, is the way that it's the most descriptive.

Pam Allan: Right. Right. So, if it's at the end of the day and there's not some cleaning going on, there will be extra muskiness down there, right? And so, I'm assuming that maybe you've taken those kinds of things into account. Right?

Corey Allan: Absolutely. Hygiene matters and timing matters. Cleanliness matters, because the labia have tons and tons of crevices in most women, and a variety of sizes and shapes. So there's an element of how am I handling the folds? One of the things would be if you're going to have an experience with oral sex coming that evening or that moment, start in the shower and spend a little bit extra time, actually not just washing the exterior area of your vulva, wash the crevices. Don't go into your vagina because the vagina is a naturally cleaning, self-cleaning organ.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: The pH and everything in most every woman's vagina, it handles itself. It's pretty incredible if you think about it.

Pam Allan: Thinking of the oven. A self-cleaning oven right there.

Corey Allan: There you go. But spend a little bit of time just making sure, because there's two distinct differences between when you're talking about oral sex. One is a hygiene scent and other is just the vaginal fluid scent and taste.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: And so, those are two separate smells and tastes. So one of them is just nip one of them right off the bat, because that's just a hygiene. And if you can, take care of that. Some men don't have a problem with that.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: And that's across the board. But hers, he's even spoken up about, "This is just not as pleasant as I thought it was going to be." Okay?

Pam Allan: Okay. So I'm thinking in that regard, that just may be his ... I mean, there's people ... When you're talking about food, there's people that like pineapple and people that don't, right?

Corey Allan: Yeah.

Pam Allan: And so that-

Corey Allan: There is an element of if you're going to go down on a woman, for a lot of men there is an acquired taste.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: That it's not something that immediately they're like, "Oh yeah. The first time, I just can't get enough of that taste."

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Instead, it's all around the scene of it, which allows you to kind of grow into it, to get more comfortable with it because it's an experience you really want to be doing. And so there's something that's associated with it that's not as, "Oh, that's so great," but instead it's like the whole picture of the thing and experience makes it to where absolutely, and you grow to enjoy, if not even long for and love it.

Pam Allan: Right. Which could be a scenario here, right?

Corey Allan: You're talking about just over a year in this and the experiences, if this is the experiences that they've had together and they don't have anything else that's comparative for him.

Pam Allan: Yeah. I'm assuming this is a young couple and not like a second marriage for 50-year-olds.

Corey Allan: There is some data that we don't have with the question, but there's still ... Then the other component of this is, well, like you're pointing out Pam, the importance of sometimes it's an acquired taste. So a lot of times, and this is what we've suggested on the show throughout the years, if this is something you want to test out to try to grow towards, sometimes the best thing you can do as it is have the oral sex experiences in the shower, surrounding water, a pool, hot tub, some different things that allow ways to refresh the vaginal area on just the external. And that helps you kind of grow into it, because then it's the brain just getting used to the whole experience, not just one little component of it that is a little more off-putting.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Okay?

Pam Allan: Yep.

Corey Allan: But then the other side of this is we've done the show a couple, it's probably over a year now, on how do I change the taste of semen? There's the same components can apply for the taste of the vaginal fluids, and it's all tied to diet. So there is an element of making sure your diet is healthy and vibrant and good, and also not real pungent smelling tasting foods all the way through. We made the comment with the semen, pineapple can actually sweeten the taste of semen. There is an element of good citrus fruits over time, because this isn't a, "I'm going to eat this for dinner and then when we have dessert later, you'll taste it."

Pam Allan: No.

Corey Allan: Instead it's over time you can alter it some. It's not a correlation straight on of, "Ooh, I really taste the pineapple there."

Pam Allan: No. I think anyone realizes that if they didn't drink coffee for a month and then they started drinking coffee for a month, there are things about your body odor that smell different because you're drinking coffee. Right?

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: I mean, you go to the bathroom and you smell coffee. It's weird stuff. So there's definitely something, we are what we eat and that can affect things, so we've got to think about that. Another option though is there's flavored tarts out there.

Corey Allan: Yes there are.

Pam Allan: We've partnered with places that sell them before here on the show, so try out maybe flavored tarts and see if that is something that would be helpful for him.

Corey Allan: Right. Yeah, they're flavored lubes that are just meant for oral sex, and it allows you to just spice it up a little bit, change it up a little bit. Because again, this is evolving and moving towards something. There are a lot of us that our anxiety keeps us at bay when we're trying something new, and the slightest little thing can make it to where it just derails it. Instead, it's, "Okay, if this is something I'm really interested in, then how do we work our way into it?" Because sometimes even just, and this is this works on both genders, if you're wanting to perform oral sex on either your wife or your husband and it's something you're kind of having to grow in comfort to, well then use manual stimulation more, but put your face closer to the area while it's going on.

Pam Allan: Yeah. Just feeling that hot breath down there, different things like that, different aspects that come from it-

Corey Allan: But it's also getting you with the olfactory parts of your body and the other aspects of it, more comfortable and introduced to that arena, and there's a tremendous amount of pheromones that go back and forth with oral sex. So there's a way for the brain to begin that process of rewiring that can then make it to where it's, okay, this is something we really want.
And then the last little comment of this is not every couple has oral sex, and do you have to?

Pam Allan: Well, there's that too.

Corey Allan: So if it's not something that's like, "You know what? We've tried it, it's just not something." Fine, own that and be okay with it. Do the other things that bring you enjoyment and pleasure and fulfillment. Fantastic. There is not a script of we must have this in our marriage to make it a vibrant, great, happy sex life. Especially if both members are like, "You know what? Once a week missionary position, lights off, that is the most erotic wild thing I've ever done." She's like, "Yep, I agree." Done. Smoke them if you got them then. You know?

Pam Allan: Yeah, sure.

Corey Allan: We make this what we want it to be.

Pam Allan: Sure. We also love it when someone wants to do something, they ask the questions to try and make it happen, right? We're going to figure it out, and not just going to say, "One and done. It didn't work, so we're just not going to try it again."

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: So, I like that.

Corey Allan: No. So the last thing on this is, this is something that we grow towards, right?

Pam Allan: Yeah, definitely.

Corey Allan: Because there is an element on both sides of giving and receiving oral sex that, "I've got to grow in comfort and ability, and even excitement sometimes on this." Because sometimes it truly is the first couple of times you're just closing your eyes, hoping for the best." Right?

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: And as you grow more accustomed to it, then it's, "Okay. Now I have a little more confidence and a little more ability, and all right, this is just what it is with my partner. This is how she's going to taste. This is how he's going to taste. All right. I can either grow to like this or not." Then it becomes a bigger picture of what do I want to do with that.

Pam Allan: Yep.

Caller: Hi Corey and Pam. I wanted to share a little bit of my story with you. Recently I was watching Unorthodox, a mini series on Netflix about a girl who lives in an extremely Orthodox Jewish community and who eventually runs away from it. One entire episode was dedicated to her sex life in her arranged marriage. It showed how it took almost a year for them to actually finish sex because she had so much pain due to vaginismus. In return, her husband and community treated her like she was broken and something was wrong with her.
This resonated with me and made me furious. I developed vaginismus after the birth of my first child 11 years ago. For five years after that, I talked to my doctor about the pain I had, and it was all blamed on scarring from a severe tear during the childbirth, and the only proposed solution was surgery to try to correct the scarring.
In the meantime, I had a second child via C-section. So after five years of painful intercourse and continued conversations with my doctor, I decided to go ahead with the surgery. When we had our preop visit, she said she didn't feel comfortable with the surgery and asked if I was willing to go get a second opinion. I went to the specialist who sent me to a vaginal PT. The specialist ended up doing a little reconstructive vaginal work, and then two weeks later told me that it was growing back and tore back the skin that was regrowing without warning as I laid on the examination table.
It broke me. I spent two days laying in bed crying after that, feeling like I was a broken and unfixable woman. As awful as that was, it was what eventually cured me. I had to use dilators three times a day and it cured the vaginismus as a bi-product. But I believe I could have been saved years of pain and emotional strain had the medical professionals know more about vaginismus or had I been familiar with the term.
Not at any point during my entire battle did anyone ever use the term vaginismus with me. I never knew that this was a common and curable diagnosis. It wasn't until I started listening to your show several years ago that I learned my condition had a name and was much more common than I had realized. I know awareness is growing, because I now have friends who are physical therapists and they're working to help women with pelvic floor issues like this.
Thank you for all your work in raising awareness of this condition so that women who experience it don't feel alone and like there's something wrong with them. I will continue to share my story just in case there is another woman listening who is walking a similar road. All of this made me curious as to whether there were formal groups or movements focused on raising awareness of this issue for women or couples, both within the medical community and outside. Thank you.

Corey Allan: I applaud that woman.

Pam Allan: Yeah. Yes. Man, thank you for that voicemail.

Corey Allan: Absolutely.

Pam Allan: crosstalk help get the word out.

Corey Allan: And joining the cause of we've got to spread the word that there is nothing broken about struggles that we have with our sex life. You are not broken.

Pam Allan: That's right.

Corey Allan: And that's something I want to ring far and wide, and thank you ma'am for helping spread that.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Don't underestimate the power of sharing your story one at a time-

Pam Allan: That's right.

Corey Allan: Because of how that can grow and really be impactful. I am so grateful that what we can do helps spread some joy and hope.

Pam Allan: Yes. Hope, yeah.

Corey Allan: And so to her question of, "Are there groups?" Yes, there are. Sometimes they're local groups, depending on where you live. Some of the bigger cities might actually have some of the groups, and that's usually just a Google search in your area. Put in the term vaginismus, because it is something that's becoming more and more known, more and more researched, and more and more cured.
Over the course of Sexy Marriage Radio, we've had a couple of different guests that have talked about it, some MDs. But from all of those, that's actually led one organization to reach out to us, but we've just never been able to coordinate to get them on the show yet. But it's the Women's Therapy Center, and I'll put the link in the show notes. But they offer a private support group, that's a private Facebook page that allows just a place for people to share their story and support each other, and give ideas and resources that can help, all meet all under the cover of knowing I've got other professionals that can be in there helping to steer the conversation, too.

Pam Allan: Okay, nice.

Corey Allan: So, it's not just women.

Pam Allan: They're based out of New York, is that right?

Corey Allan: I think so, but I'm not going to step on that.

Pam Allan: Okay, don't. [crosstalk 00:28:01].

Corey Allan: I'm out in the wild of that yet, for certain. But because of the nature of the world we're in and the interconnectedness we've got because of online, I mean man, we're reaching however many thousands of people from sitting in our living room.

Pam Allan: Right. That's right.

Corey Allan: So there's still a tremendous amount of support that you can get and help that is available online, virtually via chat rooms, via Facebook. And so, yes there are groups that can help and they're worth checking out.
Potpourri shows are fun.

Pam Allan: I do like this.

Corey Allan: It's been a while since we've been able to go a bunch of different ways and all over the place. So again, like on every show, if we've left something undone, let us know feedback at sexymarriageradio.com or (214) 702-9565 is where you can leave us a voicemail.
So this has been Sexy Immerse Radio. If you've got something that you want to share that's part of your story that you want to help enlighten the world like our voice-mailer, jump on and let us know.

Pam Allan: We'll help you share it.

Corey Allan: Absolutely. Well, wherever you are, whatever you've been doing, thanks for taking a little bit of time out of your day to spend it with us. We'll see you next time.