Speaker 1: You are listening to the regular version of Sexy Marriage Radio, smr.fm.
You've turned on Sexy Marriage Radio, where the best sex happens in the marriage bed. Here's your host, Dr. Corey Allan.

Corey Allan: Welcome back to another episode of Sexy Marriage Radio, where once again, let's go where the SMR Nation wants to go.

Pam Allan: Sounds good to me.

Corey Allan: What do you say, Pam?

Pam Allan: Let's do it.

Corey Allan: Where each and every week we are honored that the SMR Nation joins us by asking us their questions either by calling in at (214) 702-9565, or at feedback@sexymarriageradio.com and a special shout out this week, I've been partnering this particular week with an Instagram page that has started and has taken off apparently over the last couple of months, years.

Pam Allan: What's it called?

Corey Allan: Christians Who Curse Sometimes. And so to all of those of you that found us from this, welcome.

Pam Allan: Glad to have you here.

Corey Allan: To the SMR Nation.

Pam Allan: Good conversation.

Corey Allan: Sit back, relax, and you're going to hopefully realize we will be right in line with why you like that Instagram page.

Pam Allan: Sure.

Corey Allan: Because there's a lot of spirituality that we love and we believe fully in. But we also want to talk about what goes on in life. That is what's Sexy Marriage Radio is all about. We want to go where you want to go. And if you like what we got going on, we ask you to help us spread the word. So jump on your Instagram account and share it, or iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher.

Pam Allan: Rate and review us.

Corey Allan: Rate and review, leave a comment, help us climb the charts and spread the word. And on that note, at the end of last week's episode and the week prior, which was 500 and 501, we talked about we're giving away the registration for the getaway that's coming up.

Pam Allan: Yes, we are.

Corey Allan: So I'm proud to announce we do have a winner. So they've already replied back to me. So if you didn't hear from us and you entered into it, which a lot of you did, it was so fantastic.

Pam Allan: Yes, thanks. It was so incredible to hear stories, well, read stories of people that were entering in, if only we could give away-

Corey Allan: All of them.

Pam Allan: To everybody, that would be fabulous.

Corey Allan: But we do hope you'll still join us even if you didn't win, because registration is happening now. So registration window is open for this year's 2021 Sexy Marriage Radio getaway, which takes place June 17th through the 20th of 2021 here in the Dallas–Fort Worth area, just North of the DFW Airport at the Marriott Solana who has taken care of us so well.

Pam Allan: Yeah, every year.

Corey Allan: And what we want to invite you to do is to come join us for a four day getaway, because this is not your typical marriage retreat.

Pam Allan: No, no.

Corey Allan: Would you agree, Pam?

Pam Allan: Yeah. There's a lot of good time together. It's not crammed with sitting in a session nonstop. It's just nice, relaxing, fun time together.

Corey Allan: We'll have a lot of value add opportunities of the things you can do, but the content itself is going to be all new that we're heading down a uncharted waters.

Pam Allan: So if you've been before, it's new data.

Corey Allan: Yeah. We want you to come and enjoy the time with several other sexy couples and Pam and I, because it's a fun four days. I love that four day weekend of just meeting listeners, meeting some old friends that have been around to a lot of the getaways. I know several are already talking about they're coming back, and so make your plans now. Registration is open. You're going to want to go to smr.fm/getaway is how you can register. So jump in there, reserve your spot because my hunch is going to be, we've all been cooped up for a long time. So let's get out and get away, and we will sell out.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: So get your spot now. Coming up on today's regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio is a couple of your questions and our answers. And some of them will be kind of fun because I know where we're heading with some of the emails.

Pam Allan: I'm looking forward to, yeah.

Corey Allan: And my wife always is like, uh-oh, because sometimes I'm surprising her.

Pam Allan: He always surprises me. In case you guys don't know a lot, he plans it out, but I get surprised by it all.

Corey Allan: And then on the extended version of Sexy Marriage Radio, which is deeper, longer, and there are no ads, you can subscribe at smr.fm/smracademy. We're going to continue the conversation we did last week on the idea of what about a better definition of intimacy in marriage? What does it mean to be intimate?

Pam Allan: Okay. Did we have some emailers or is this a question?

Corey Allan: Yeah, it spurred some conversation, especially in the academy. There's a couple of people that jumped on board and then also emailed specifically, we emailed back and forth with a couple. I'm going to come at the same kind of idea from a slightly different angle by addressing it through the lens of roommates syndrome that happens in far too many marriages. And maybe it's even just seasonses, seasonses? Yeah.

Pam Allan: Easy for you to say.

Corey Allan: That's words are hard. So we're going to come at just talking about the idea of what does intimacy really mean in marriage and how do you break free of roommates syndrome if that's where you find yourself.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: All that's coming up on today's show. So here's an email that came in Pam from a husband that says, "I'm 46. I've been married for just over three years. And I waited until I got married to have sex. I almost wish I'd discovered your podcast back then, rather than just this year. My wife is more experienced than I am because she's been married before, but she was widowed for 11 years before we married. It frustrates me and her that I can't make the experience of intimacy more pleasant for both of us. Do you have any advice for me? Thanks."

Pam Allan: Oh, there's a lot of advice there, definitely. Shoot you-

Corey Allan: You're saying, hey, you got some advice rolling around in there.

Pam Allan: Well, my immediate thing is no matter whether you're 46 or 20 and just getting three years in or well, 23 and three years into marriage, there's just a lot of stuff to learn.

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: So give it some time and don't get frustrated with that piece. That's number one to me because that's where the mind gets in there and plays with things.

Corey Allan: What I'm most curious about, Pam, is the way he's framing this, that it almost seems like, and I'm curious if his wife agrees, but it almost seems like he sees himself as a novice and he sees himself already as inferior when maybe he really isn't.

Pam Allan: True that.

Corey Allan: Because the reality is while she may be experienced in the sexual arena, she is not experienced in sex with him.

Pam Allan: That's right.

Corey Allan: And so the uniqueness of each person in how we approach that aspect of our life and the aspect of our relationship is what quintessentially makes us special, and it adds the sacredness, and it adds the power that we can bring. Because I mean, if you think about it technique wise, there's only so many things we can do.

Pam Allan: Sure.

Corey Allan: Right. That some people will figure out, oh, I could use this, or try this move or this routine or whatever, but it's how are you bringing all of you to the experience? And even though he's only three years in, so is she with him?

Pam Allan: True. True. But even in the first three years, so yeah, you're talking a different avenue, I guess, than I am. But even when you are talking specifically technique, it doesn't all come overnight.

Corey Allan: No, it doesn't. I'll totally acknowledge that just the thought and the prospect of, okay, when you're having sex with somebody that has ... If they've been married before, there is probably a great deal of experience in their mind with their partner or if they were promiscuous with their partners. And so we can easily get caught in that dark side trap of, I wonder if they were better. I wonder if that was better. I wonder if they were bigger. I wonder if she could do this. We get into all these kinds of comparison trap.

Pam Allan: A comparison hole.

Corey Allan: Right. And yeah, that's the reality of what you're facing, but I still view it as when I start to go down that kind of a trap, we both are doomed.

Pam Allan: True.

Corey Allan: Because you're holding her hostage with something from her past too. And so yes, there is benefit to having a conversation of, he feels like, and it's frustrating that he can't make the experience of intimacy more pleasant for the both of us. How do you define that? What does that really mean?

Pam Allan: Well, and what does she bring into the table? What is she doing to make the connection and those moments of intimacy better for both of you as well? Is she relying on him to do all of it?

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: He can't do a hundred percent of it. She's got to come to the table. And if there's some expectations there that she wants and she feels like she's not getting it met, by all means she needs to speak up and-

Corey Allan: Right. And this is where it starts to become tricky. Right. Because if I bring up, "You know what, honey, my experience in the past has been this, and I really did appreciate that. And I really did like that particular thing." That's a comparison right there. You're kind of framing it that way, but it's also still the reality of what we can get stuck in. And so I think of it as this is our theme that we have a lot of the different contexts of what we cover here in SMR when they're a little trickier to deal with, because how do you bring it up without the hurt? Well, you can't. There is some hurt that could come with it.

Pam Allan: Potentially. Yeah.

Corey Allan: But how am I clean about it just to say, you know what, I really love it when you go down on me, or I really love it knowing, well, that means someone else probably does. That's how you learn. But that's both of us having to learn to confront, wait, this is us doing this together. This is us heading towards something together.

Pam Allan: Yeah, and the earlier part of life, pre them being married, that's part of what brought you together. It's part of what made you who you are today.

Corey Allan: Totally.

Pam Allan: So there's a part of that that you just embrace hopefully and say, okay, had XYZ not happened, we wouldn't have been together today. So let's embrace that. What has made you ... What does do it for you? What does make you feel secure? What makes you feel loved? What makes you feel horny? All those things and maybe you can vocalize them.

Corey Allan: Absolutely, because I still think we have to come back to all the time, Pam, because we can get caught in our own head, in our own world, regardless of our past. Right. Whether it actually happened and that's what we're going back to, or it's just a fantasy life, or it's just something we saw in a movie or pornography or something that we can get caught in this trap. It's something that's possible for all of us. So that's where the encouragement becomes, okay. So you want to make things more pleasant and a pleasurable experience for both of you. So, you start some conversations with your spouse about this and you let her know, this is what I feel like I'm kind of stacked up against, even though there's nothing you could do about that. That's just the reality of what we're facing.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: That's calling out the dynamic of what it is. It's the same thing, not at all apples to apples, but it's the same thing you and I face when tax season gets really rolling, that we can have times where, when I'm down in the dumps about it, you, if you're not in a good spot, could easily say, "Well, maybe it's my fault I chose this path." But no, no, we chose this together. So how do we align on, yeah, I hate it too. I hate this season right now. It sucks. We don't see each other. I hate that. And you kind of acknowledged the dilemma between you, rather than blaming each other.

Pam Allan: Right. And then how do we make time for each other? How do we make it work?

Corey Allan: So it's the same kind of concept of you acknowledge the dilemma between you better without placing blame. And then you open your eyes more when you're with each other and you realize, yeah, don't care what your past is. I'm with you now, you're with me now. I may not know at all what I'm doing and maybe you see that, but that's kind of fun to figure out too, isn't it? It's just, how do we reframe all of this? Look at this. You get to break me in, teach me how to do this right for you, that I could be a specialist just for you.

Pam Allan: Oh my gosh.

Corey Allan: And there are so many things that we can reframe and all of a sudden, now we have a different power.

Pam Allan: Yeah. Yeah. If you can smile about it, I think of some of the stupid things that I've done in the bedroom, and if we shared them, they would be fricking embarrassing. They'd be so embarrassing. And you just laugh. You look at it and then you laugh with me, and thank goodness you do.

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: Because that would be so embarrassing. But those are the beautiful things that that's the perspective change right there that you're referring to. It's all a perspective.

Corey Allan: Right. Because I think we can always, if we go down the route of comparing, we always come up short. So recognize when I start to get down that dark, deep void and vortex that's just going to suck the life out of you both, and claim it differently and look at it through the lens of, hold on, this is something you and I are creating together. This is something that's being born out in both of us together. The best is still yet to come.
Sexy Marriage Radio was brought to you again by some of our friends at HelloFresh who have regularly made our life here in the Allan household just a little bit better each and every week.

Pam Allan: Oh, so tasty.

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Pam Allan: Thank goodness. We always have something that we miss at the grocery store.

Corey Allan: Right. It's not at all uncommon for one of the Allans to have to run back up to the store in meal prep without the help of HelloFresh.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Or perhaps you're more like Pam and you're more adventurous than I am in your palette and tastes, HelloFresh offers 23 plus weekly recipes with a range of cuisines and ingredients. So there's always something new to try. We actually tried out Shepherd's pie this past evening.

Pam Allan: And the kids are crazy about it. That's the thing, the kids love it.

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Pam Allan: And the kids are going to get veggies. I'm not cooking and the kids are going to get veggies.

Corey Allan: Shocking reality. So go to hellofresh.com/SMR10, and use our code SMR10 for 10 free meals, including free shipping. So another email that this is kind of fun that this one came in, it's been around for a little while. We're finally getting to it, but it seems fortuitous on the timing seeing as I'm in a conversation with the Christians Who Curse Sometimes in Instagram, okay? Because they kind of cover some of these. We're all trying to do well, but sometimes we're colorful with our language, which you and I fit that, just not on the air, right?

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: So here's an email that says, "Hello, Sexy Marriage Radio. There's been a lot of conversations in Christian circles and resources about the fallout of the purity culture. I think a lot of your listeners like me experienced the purity culture movement as teens and into adulthood. Now that many of us are married, it would be helpful and insightful to hear our thoughts on this issue.
To give you some specificity, I heard throughout my teen and young adult life the following lessons, God doesn't want you to date. Instead, you should court. The purpose and intent of dating is marriage. You enter into an arrangement with your partner, or I'm sorry. You enter into an arrangement with your parents to keep pure, which is the purity ring tradition. If you save your sexuality for marriage, God will give you a great sex life. Your abstinence has an end because it's God's purpose for you to find a mate. Masturbation is wrong and the spiritual equivalent of cheating on your spouse.
So many of my friends married young to the first person they dated, some with disastrous results. A few got divorced specifically because their sex lives were disastrous. So rather than burn with desire, some married quickly only to find out they'd married an unsafe or questionable person. Some find it challenging to be sexual at all. Others had lingering porn addictions, which started in the formative teen years. Obviously marriage can be and has impacted all generations, but the past 20 years saw a unique Christian philosophy that possibly harmed many, and it's still impacting marriages today." What's our thoughts.
And this is one of those things that it seems like if you look throughout history, let's go kind of global first. History has a tendency and even the church has a tendency to swing from one end of the pendulum to the other, or the continuum we'll go back and forth, right? That it's just, we can go to one extreme, and then all of a sudden things get lightened up and it goes to another. And that's just kind of the way society unfolds and churches are not immune to society.

Pam Allan: Sure.

Corey Allan: Because they're made up of people.

Pam Allan: Sure.

Corey Allan: So there is quite a few things that I've seen come across in the last couple of years where it talks about this whole waking up to maybe the intent of that message and that whole movement was really pretty good, the way it all unfolded, not so much. Because it started talking about things in a way that really brought in a lot more guilt or shame, or it painted things in some lights. And I know there's a lot of people that listen to SMR or that have come into my doors and I've worked with, that have bought into and heard the, if you save sex for marriage, God will give you a great sex life, only to find that's not as easy as you think. It's not as free flowing as you think.

Pam Allan: Well, it's not as free flowing and easy whether you saved it or not.

Corey Allan: True.

Pam Allan: Right. I mean, you and Shannon, I remember long ago, you and Shannon had a episode on this talking about that.

Corey Allan: Yeah. The true love waits, yeah.

Pam Allan: Right, and it was something that I hadn't even thought of really before you guys talked about it and I'm listening to the episode and thinking, oh, I totally see that, right? The method while we are, of course, teaching ... I'll go from our perspective, right. We're teaching our kids, it's a really good idea to wait, right? Because there's so much baggage that can come along. We've seen the baggage that comes along with being promiscuous before, having sex before marriage and some of the drama that comes with that. But it's the way that message is shared that, I mean, her comment about don't date, court. Well, I don't even know the difference between courting and dating. I don't know what that definition is.

Corey Allan: The specific end of courting is marriage.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: It's not for trying things out. That's the whole point is you only start that process when you know you're marrying them.

Pam Allan: Yeah. Okay.

Corey Allan: Whereas dating has a little more of a frivolous, I'm just kind of learning some things and we're having some fun and you can do that in some safe connotations, even still, but where there's not the expectation of yep, this is the process of us just getting to know each other before we get married.

Pam Allan: Right, right, right. Anyway, go on, you had something to say, I'm kind of rambling.

Corey Allan: So it is one of those, I think that what has wreaked the most havoc that the emailer is pointing out is the anxiety surrounding sex when you add a religious dogma to it, particularly when that dogma is either shame-based, guilt-based, or silent. It's not something that's in a positive light. Although, the message is attempting to be in a positive light. Sex is great when you're in marriage, but it's also saying if you have it outside of marriage, the unspoken is your penis will fall off and your vagina's going to melt. Right. And you're going to burn in hell forever and ever.

Pam Allan: I don't think I ever heard that one.

Corey Allan: I haven't either. I'm just adding those connotations to it because I think that's the way when we hear unspoken parts of things that it's like in our brain, we're like, what are you not saying here? If I don't have specific data, our brain goes to pretty dark places with things because it's protecting itself, right?

Pam Allan: It does.

Corey Allan: That is the same mechanism that goes into play when all of a sudden you can't get ahold of your spouse and they were supposed to have checked in, or you can't figure out where a kid is and they were supposed to have come home. You go to worst case scenario because the brain is doing that protective, I'm already getting myself ready to deal with the absolute worst.

Pam Allan: Sure.

Corey Allan: And when it's not that, oh, I can relax a little bit, but it seems like that's just part of what we do as people. And so when you use it with this context on this topic, man, it can cause a lot of pain, and a lot of shame, and a lot of guilt. And it's also part of why Sexy Marriage Radio is still going 500 episodes in.

Pam Allan: So then I flip back to the other role, what message do you want to give your kids?

Corey Allan: So this goes, what comes to my mind is one of the conversations that I had with Peggy Orenstein. The boys and girls-

Pam Allan: Yeah, the boys and girls, she did the book. Yeah.

Corey Allan: Yeah. And it was a conversation. She's a journalist and a reporter, and she went and interviewed boys and girls. It's just, what are the messages they're hearing? So there's no religious connotation to her work, but it brought up our culture outside of churches even. Our culture here in the West has come down with, we're talking about all the pitfalls and the feared things that you need to be afraid of. Just be safe. Don't get pregnant. Watch out for STDs. And we don't talk about the blessings and the beauty and the greatness of a sexual connection and what it can be, and the pleasure that can come along with it.
I think of the very first time I got deeper into this content, and I was speaking to a moms group. And I was brought in specifically to talk about how to talk to your kids about sex, because it's one of those things that in school, we went through some really cool experiences on just challenge some of the messages, and challenge just becoming more familiar, so I'm not anxious talking about this with my kid, because they'll read it, right? If I'm freaking out trying to talk to them about it, they're going to read that. They'll know.

Pam Allan: They'll know.

Corey Allan: So we got on this whole idea and I was kind of going down the path that you're describing of, we believe that marriage is where sex is sacred and blessed. That's where it's best, research continues to bear that out, by the way, that the best, most satisfying sex happens in committed relationships.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: But I also would add in the addendum and this is what we've taught our kids and we'll continue to do so because this is all a dialogue that this is what we believe, this is our value, but there's also the importance of understanding how you protect yourself should you choose differently. Because I think we need to equip them to live life in this world, because it is choice, right? Everything that we do is choice.
And so when you're looking at this whole movement and how it has caused some pain and it has caused some hurt and some struggle, and it has caused people to rush into relationships that maybe they needed to wake up earlier to, right? To realize, wait, the whole purpose of marriage is not just so I have a place that's sacred to have sex. Marriage is so much more than that, right?
So the biggest thing I see as the pitfall of this is all the anxiety surrounding it, that all of us entering into the arena of our sex life, there's anxiety already there, because there's an unknown. I'm familiar with the way I work, but I have no clue how your kind works, babe. And just when I think after 27 years I got you figured out, something changes. You could even say the same about me, that I kept the moods. Humans, male or female, are still complex beings, especially when it comes to their sexuality.

Pam Allan: Ever evolving, yes.

Corey Allan: So it's recognizing that there's something deeper going on. And our goal then becomes, how do I confront my own anxiety surrounding this topic, grow more comfortable talking about it, which is where you go through the archives of SMR, pick out what speaks to you. Start those conversations with your girlfriends or with your guy friends, if you're just hanging out outside of your relationship. But more importantly, have those conversations with the person you do this with, and recognize what are the taboos I brought into this that maybe aren't? What are the things that I thought are shameful and sinful, but maybe aren't? And see if I can grow into reframing the way I go about it.

Pam Allan: I think that's a lot of freedom right there, going through that internal dialogue and kind of checklist of what is it that I currently believe is shameful, and why do I think it's shameful?

Corey Allan: Give me the facts, let's go into why I believe that. Sometimes it's just because it's either what I assumed or what I was told, but maybe they were doing the least possible to get the subject covered, because they were uncomfortable.

Pam Allan: Yeah. So many girlfriends that think a blow job is shameful. Why do you think that? Right. Go down the list. I mean, the listeners could name off a giant list of things that either they or someone that they're in community with have that issue and come on, let's challenge them. And maybe they really are shameful. Maybe something for you really is there, but challenge why it is at least.

Corey Allan: Right. That's where I think the fruit that's born out of this exercise is confirming, what do I really believe? Because even if I get down in the camp of you know what, doing that particular act or even just the whole thing is wrong, then at least I can own that and explain that and live that. And I'm more honest. And then I let the people that I live life with have to adjust to this kind of dialogue rather than just the, I don't know. And we just start trying to avoid the things that we're uncomfortable about.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Because when you do that, that's when you start getting into the way Schnarch refers to this whole concept of sex, is sex is made up of leftovers, right?

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Where you get to determine whatever you think is gross, perverted, and disgusting, and you don't want to do. I get to determine whatever I think is gross, perverted, and disgusting, and I don't want to do. And we're going to do whatever's leftover.

Pam Allan: And it's the leftovers, and that just doesn't sound very enticing.

Corey Allan: It's not, but we can grow into more because we all are evolving and changing. In many cases, when you're talking about the way you were raised with whatever kind of movement it was, you're not even sure what can be born in you yet.

Pam Allan: That's right.

Corey Allan: So ask the questions and recognize there's so much more going on. And if we need to go further with this, then you're going to call us at (214) 702-9565 and give us some specifics on where we need to go to help you steer this even better. So, as we wrap this up, Pam, my hope is that there are people that have already, as they've listened to this week's episode, they actually hit pause at the very beginning and went and registered to come join us at the SMR getaway in June 17th through the 20th, 2021.

Pam Allan: Come see us. We want to meet you in person.

Corey Allan: Absolutely. And have four days to get away with your spouse. How lucky are you?

Pam Allan: Yeah. True that.

Corey Allan: To have a great time with your spouse and share it together.

Pam Allan: Yeah, weirdly, who cares about meeting us?

Corey Allan: I don't know.

Pam Allan: That's kind of self-centered.

Corey Allan: That's totally worth it to come meet up, because I want to meet them too, because the Sexy Marriage Radio Nation are the sexiest people out there. So come on. Come enjoy the group. It'll be a fabulous time together. Well, this has been Sexy Marriage Radio. If we left something undone or we didn't cover something well enough, you know what to do. Let us know at feedback@sexymarriageradio.com. So wherever you are, whatever you've been doing, thanks again for taking some time out of your week to spend it with us. We'll see you next time.