Speaker 1: You are listening to the regular version of Sexy Marriage Radio smr.fm.
You've turned on Sexy Marriage Radio, where the best sex happens in the marriage bed. Here's your host, Dr. Corey Allan.

Corey Allan: Welcome back to another episode of Sexy Marriage Radio, where fall is in the air, Pam. Here in Texas, there have been moments of cool followed by the heat, followed by cool.

Pam Allan: We relish every moment of the cool that we get.

Corey Allan: The changing of the seasons is always just exciting and invigorating.

Pam Allan: It is.

Corey Allan: And I'm hoping that everybody else that's in the SMR nation recognizes how life has seasons. Life has moments. Sometimes it's good, sometimes the heat wave comes back in a negative way. But just recognize it's all part of a cycle, that things happen like that, that there is just a rhythm. So what is the phrase I came across long time ago? That, "I can yell at the wind or I can adjust my sails."

Pam Allan: So let's adjust the sails, let's do it.

Corey Allan: A lot of times, that's one of the best things you can do, is just adjust the sail and figure out, "What can I learn in this moment?" And that's what we try to do here at Sexy Marriage Radio, is just talk through and speak about what's going on in your world as part of the SMR nation. And so what you could do is let us know, and that's by calling us at (214) 702-9565, or email us at feedback@sexymarriageradio.com, where the inbox continually gets pinged with questions and thoughts and feedback. And we've got a couple this week that are based on some of the shows we've had in the past, which will be fun to kind of circle back to come at it from a slightly different way. But we want to start conversations and we want to help frame conversations for people.
And if you like the conversations that go on here, we ask you to jump into iTunes or Spotify, Google Play, however you listen, write and review, leave the comment. I was going through the thread on iTunes the other day, Pam, and there's a lot of really good comments right now that people have been leaving on-

Pam Allan: You sound like you're surprised about that.

Corey Allan: I like the confirmation.

Pam Allan: Okay, there you go.

Corey Allan: That it resonates with people and that it makes a difference and it helps start the conversations. Because you and I do this each and every week, because one, we have a heart for marriages and we want people to experience all that it can be.

Pam Allan: That's right.

Corey Allan: Two, we love just kind of sharing our story and being a part of that journey, I think with people. And then three, hearing that it makes an impact and that it makes a difference.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: You can't deny that, that that's a motivation too, that we want this to help translate into your particular situation and circumstances.

Pam Allan: Exactly.

Corey Allan: And so we want to frame conversations, and the other thing that we do that's helping frame conversations, is our resource tool that we have out there called The State of Our Union, which is a tech service you sign up for and you get weekly texts to help-

Pam Allan: Start some conversations.

Corey Allan: Exactly. That kind of walk you through it and help you touch base on some of the deeper things.

Pam Allan: And some of it's common sense stuff that, "Wow, why weren't we talking about this before?"

Corey Allan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Pam Allan: Right?

Corey Allan: And that's a good thing to do. You and I do this on a weekly basis, is just try the quick touch points, just to get beyond the surface and the schedule and get to what matters, because that's what we want. That's what we think helps marriages get just so much deeper and so much more connected.
Well, coming up on today's regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio, is several of your questions that have come in over the months. We've got some we've kind of gone back into the archives to pull out an answer and we'll answer them, obviously.

Pam Allan: Good.

Corey Allan: So you're going to read the questions and then just leave them out there.

Pam Allan: Leave them out-

Corey Allan: No, we'll answer them.

Pam Allan: That's useful.

Corey Allan: And then coming up on the extended version of Sexy Marriage Radio, which is deeper, longer, and there are no ads, you can subscribe at smr.fm/smracademy.
We're going to dive into a topic based off of an email that came in from episode 478, where a listener has given the other side some additional information on what we covered. It's not the person that set up 478, but it's someone else that had a similar experience.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: But I want to use that to dive into the idea of how, when we have problems, a lot of times I think what we do as humans, is there's a huge difference in distinction between me seeking pain alleviation or solving the problem.

Pam Allan: Yeah, because I could be comfortable with the pain, I guess. And I guess ... Well, okay. crosstalk

Corey Allan: All that's coming up on today's show. So here's an email that came in Pam, that says, "Hello. First of all, thank you for the show. I found you guys last year and have listened consistently since then, after catching up on all of the missed episodes.
So my husband and I have been married for 19 wonderful years, have three beautiful children. In 2016, right after we celebrated a wedding anniversary, I discovered that he'd been viewing porn on and off for a couple of years. I was devastated. We always had what I would consider a very healthy sex life. That sent us down a road of healing and growing closer honestly than we ever thought possible."
Which is one of the things when you go through struggles, if you use them as growth opportunities, I think a lot of times couples recognize, "Wow, there's a whole different level of honesty that comes out of this whole thing."

Pam Allan: It can be achieved, yeah.

Corey Allan: If nothing else, that's motivation to stick with the struggles that come up.
"So after much forgiveness, much healing and now being able to use our story to help others, we have good accountability in place and have honest conversations often. Part of our healing was getting to the root of why it happened to begin with, which had nothing to do with me really." Which is another great point to all of the people that are victims or if you will, of virtual betrayals.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: And I like to put pornography in that kind of a framework, that it usually has absolutely nothing to do with you.
"So fast forward through the years. This last year, we've had a new season of sex and intimacy in our marriage that has us scratching our heads wondering, "What were we doing for 16 years?" It's been incredible. We finally opened up honest communication about what we want and need from sex. And now we have these conversations in person. And one thing we are curious about in your thoughts on, as a Christian marriage, what about couples filming a sexual moment between the two of them?
On our journey to more sexual freedom in our marriage, we've incorporated toys, some bedroom language that we feel is comfortable and acceptable between us. We can send photos to one another. We've had a conversation about filming, and we've discussed some triggers that I have from our experience with the porn. He assures me that it would not trigger that, as we share seductive photos with one another, that hasn't even triggered him before.
So it's been years since that was an issue and I trust him and believe him when he answers my questions, he hasn't had an issue with it again, and I'm not naive, but I do believe that God heals him from the desires. That plus accountability has kept our marriage healthy since then.
So we're both curious about the videoing, leaning towards feeling like it would be exciting, but we want to understand biblically that the Bible is fairly silent on this. And we know the ground rules for sexual things in a Christian marriage, but I've never heard you address this specifically. Thoughts?"

Pam Allan: Right? Well, it's interesting when you have that history and the triggers that come up, right? So what meaning is she putting on this, right?

Corey Allan: And it sounds like they're already doing a really good job of having that conversation about-

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Okay, let me express my concerns with this, because there is an element of the virtual like that, that sparks into the visual nature of our brain differently.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: And so that can be something that needs to be addressed like she's talking about.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: But as far as the overall, is it okay, appropriate, acceptable, or a sin, if a couple films a sexual encounter between the two of them?

Pam Allan: For their own use and edification.

Corey Allan: Right. And for the titillation novelty of the experience, because there can be this component that is like, "Whoa, this kind of has just amped it up."

Pam Allan: When it's just the two of you, I don't see why that would be an issue.

Corey Allan: Yeah.

Pam Allan: I get scared about technology and anything being digital. I don't care where you store it. I'm always afraid there's going to be some hack that'll get their hands on it.

Corey Allan: That is the one word of warning and caution, is to recognize how is it being done? Where does it wind up? Because if you use a phone that's attached to a cloud, it is heading to a server that you don't control.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Ultimately, and they can put all kinds of safeguards in place, but there has been enough over the last decade of hacks and leaks that have come out. And so there's always that possibility. But there is also software and equipment that can be found that puts stuff just on a card. It's all air gapped, if you will, so it's never attached to an internet access. It does not have any wifi capability. It just stays on a physical copy of whatever. That's a little easier to control and manage on where does it go.

Pam Allan: Yeah. But outside of the technology piece-

Corey Allan: Yeah, outside of the technology piece, go for it if that's something you both want to test out. Because we've had that idea of try anything once, right? Because is there a gray area?

Pam Allan: Well, have we said anything?

Corey Allan: Well, no, you're right.

Pam Allan: No. It's not anything.

Corey Allan: Okay, I'm being a little fast and loose with the terminology there.

Pam Allan: A little fast and loose. But in a scenario like this, when it's the two of you and you've agreed upon something within that marriage-

Corey Allan: Right. Because this is not one of the thou shalts areas or thou shalt not areas. This is not touched on scripturally. So you're two consenting adults that are you staying in line with your moral character and your values, individually and collectively together, then what's the harm to try it out and see?

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Because I think that's something you can test it out. The one question you have to ask yourself, because I mean, obviously, this couple is not ... They're young, the way it's described.

Pam Allan: Well, they've been married 19 years.

Corey Allan: They're still young. Come on. We're the old people here, babe.

Pam Allan: Okay. Yeah, okay.

Corey Allan: I'll speak for myself.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Some days, I feel like I'm very old.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: You do have to ask yourself, even when you keep it protected, what's your plan for if something tragic happened to you and the kids are going through everything? Because there's an element of these kinds of things. Everything does have a trail that is left.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: And so if you guys can navigate, "You know what? Let's do it this way, let's have it that. And here's the plan for how we'll protect it and what we'll do with it, how long it'll exist, et cetera, et cetera." Then you've taken the steps that you appropriately can, then just have some fun and roll tape.
So another email that came in talks about, this is from a husband that says, "When we first met, there was not much that we would not try. Now, my spouse does not want to do new things and we only have sex once a week, which is way less than I like. I've mentioned that I would like to have sex more. And she says it's all I ever think about. She says that sex is something that's rarely she ever thinks about. But when we don't have sex, it makes me think about it more and more and it makes more of an issue for me. When we do have sex it's nice and we both orgasm, but it gives me anxiety because once it's over, I know that that's it for about a week or a week and a half.
How can we help to find a middle ground? Or how can I not think about it as much? Thanks."

Pam Allan: It is the same question from the high desire, right?

Corey Allan: This is the high desire, low desire, gridlock.

Pam Allan: It's the gridlock and she's going to be there and it's not uncommon for the low desire spouse to just not think about it. And so I get that that's totally frustrating.

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: I don't want someone to not think about sex when that's what they want. So I don't want to tell him-

Corey Allan: Right. Okay. You're talking about him specifically, because that's-

Pam Allan: Him specifically saying, "How do I not think about it as much?"

Corey Allan: And we've had shows on that in the past of, "Just help me lower my desire level, because it would make it a whole lot easier for myself."

Pam Allan: No.

Corey Allan: Which I can understand the thought process in that.

Pam Allan: Totally.

Corey Allan: But it's not dealing with what's right in front of you still. It's not dealing with an actual fact that desire is a natural thing.

Pam Allan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Corey Allan: So the way he's describing this, that she says she rarely even thinks about it. Yes. That's true. That happens. And that's where then it's on the higher desire to keep it on the radar and just kind of see it as, "My job is to continue down that path. Not force it, but not act like and just hope it comes up on its own."

Pam Allan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Corey Allan: And so the one thing that jumps out to me on this and the reason I wanted to touch on this email, even though we've covered this kind of topic a bunch over the years, is the idea that she says when he brings up sex, that's all he ever thinks about.

Pam Allan: Right or wrong, she may have selective listening. Maybe that's what he brings up all the time, or it's just her interpretation.

Corey Allan: I think that it's her truth. Because if you do a comparative analysis here of someone that never it's on her radar, versus someone that it's on their radar at all, even if it's a lot or a little, that's all they think about, if you do comparatively speaking.

Pam Allan: Yeah, that's your interpretation, right? Yeah.

Corey Allan: So I choose to think of this in the terms of, okay, fundamentally speaking, sir, every human being, especially in relationship, but every human being is trying to make moves. This is the Schnarch's thought process.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: I'm either trying to move someone off of a belief or a action or on a belief or an action, right? They're doing the same thing. So if your wife can back you off and make you lose your ground and your footing and your solidness just by saying, "All you ever think about is sex," which is really effective with a lot of husbands because they want to defend themselves. "No, I really don't, no." What were to happen if you were to say, okay, let's play this scenario out between us.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: You play this card, and I don't know, I don't remember if this has ever been said in our marriage. It probably has at some point when neither of us were really at our best. But I don't remember this happening a lot.

Pam Allan: Either way.

Corey Allan: But if you were to say, "All you ever think about is sex," and I, all of a sudden backpedal, that's a really good move by you. See that?

Pam Allan: Well, thank you.

Corey Allan: Yeah. Well done.

Pam Allan: Thank you. I'm quite the [inaudible 00:15:49].

Corey Allan: You say that well. Easy for you to say. But, if you were to come back at me during the heat of something like that, "All you ever think about is sex," and I was to actually say, "Yeah, and other things." Doesn't that change the connotation?

Pam Allan: It does.

Corey Allan: Rather than if I got defensive of, "Oh, hold on," and I'm trying to explain it to you.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Because a lot of times, if you look at this kind of a dynamic and exchange between a higher and a lower, the lower desires response is typically coming from emotional logic in that response, right? They're just reacting to an emotion because they're feeling flooded or attacked or pressured or something, which usually ends itself in the emotion. So they'll respond that way.
Typically, when I get defensive, I get into rational logic. I then try to justify my stance with facts.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: And those two states do not talk to each other, right? Emotional and rational don't communicate well, especially when there's heat or tension. So, by being able to just acknowledge and own, "Yeah, I do think about it," we can-

Pam Allan: Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.

Corey Allan: We can argue about quantities here, but I'm not going to deny the fact that yes, it is on my radar more than yours. What else you got?

Pam Allan: Yeah. Good job noticing. Thank you. I appreciate you noticing that.

Corey Allan: Right? So that changes the stance that you can bring to it. And then, this doesn't necessarily solve the gridlock because we all know gridlock is not necessarily solved, it's lived through. But this to me, for him, is a better way to move into that gridlock and see where that takes you next. Because again, she's making a move, so are you. Just make them from the best in you.
All right. This is an email that just came in Pam, and I love this one. I don't know if we've ever had one this succinct on this topic.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: So this is from a new listener and a binge listener to boot, which I love, we love binge listeners. Yes.

Pam Allan: Appreciate your binging.

Corey Allan: Here's the question. How can a faithful, church going, Christian woman find sex-positive friends. Usually that conversation would be with a best friend, but my bestie hasn't had sex in 20 years. Yeah, really sad for her husband who is also one of my best friends. Anyway, how can you bring up the subject with other friends? And yes, all of them are Christians as well.

Pam Allan: That is a fabulous question.

Corey Allan: Yes, it is.

Pam Allan: And curious if most of the friends are within actually a church body, or if it's just-

Corey Allan: Like, they're all part of the same group, you mean?

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: The group think, they drink the same Kool-Aid?

Pam Allan: Well, I mean, if you go to a church together and you're in a small group together, something like that, then, it can be that way. But I mean, we end up running with people that are similar to us usually.

Corey Allan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Pam Allan: So if it's that kind of a setting, it'd be interesting. If I'm in a small group, "Hey guys, have we thought about having some small group lessons on sexuality?" And just being flat out and bringing that up, or just asking the question of other people of what potentially they've done in helping their relationship. I think specifically, if you're talking with female to female, that's not so taboo. Maybe it's taboo with her girlfriend. At least she and her girlfriend have talked enough to know that the girlfriend hasn't had sex in 20 years.

Corey Allan: And this is the question I've got based on that response from the girlfriend, is the girlfriend okay with that?

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Right. Because then that could just be a fact that's being stated without the addendum of, "It's not really trending the way I want it to, or I am totally okay with it, because it's not on my radar. It's not something I'm interested in."

Pam Allan: Right. Well, and that's a valid question. If my bestie hasn't had sex in 20 years and I'm wanting to have a deep, meaningful conversation with my girlfriend, how is she doing with that?

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: Let's have a conversation and let's be there for one another-

Corey Allan: I want to add, and maybe I'm getting into the psychobabble here, but I want to add a component in a lens to this conversation, Pam. She's hoping for a sex- positive relationships, where I can talk about sex.

Pam Allan: Join the Academy.

Corey Allan: Yes.

Pam Allan: Okay, sorry I interrupted you but-

Corey Allan: No, no. That's completely fair, because there's actually a dialogue going on right now that is pushing some guard rails that I love, because it's freedom to actually explore some things and we don't talk about these things.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: So yes, join the academy, smr.fm/smr.

Pam Allan: And they're specifically women channels on there that just the women talk.

Corey Allan: But to help reframe how this is being viewed by this wife, this woman is, sex-positive to me, doesn't always mean I'm in a, I want more sex quality, sex category. Sex-positive to me means I have the freedom to talk about it, good and bad.

Pam Allan: Yeah. I would agree with you there.

Corey Allan: Okay. That it's just overall, I want a group that uplifts and honors and promotes what I believe in and am striving for, yes. But one of the hurdles we've got to get across is this idea of sex-positive means I just bring the subject up. I mean, in our circles we run with, we're kind of known as the ones that will bring it up because of the show.

Pam Allan: We don't just bring it up randomly though, in weird situations.

Corey Allan: No, but we know if it starts to lend itself towards that theme, our friends are like, "They'll go there. They'll talk about it. They don't have any qualms about it." And so that's still sex-positive to me, is just a freedom to bring it up. And so when she's asking, how do you find these friends, well, she's the higher desire in the willingness and interest in talking about this subject. So that means she's going to have to just introduce it more.

Pam Allan: That's right.

Corey Allan: And maybe people warm up to it, eventually. Maybe they don't. Maybe you start going to some of the different, when everything opens back up or there's stuff that's virtual and there's conferences that lend itself more towards the sexual side of marriage, there's people there that are going because they're looking for enrichment and encouragement and enticement.

Pam Allan: Yeah. I mean, come to a getaway in June. You're going to meet people there, plus people in your circle is going to say, "Hey, where are you guys heading to?"
"Oh, we're going to the Sexy Marriage Radio getaway." That starts conversations. And then, gosh, what do you know? People around you start talking?

Corey Allan: Because here's the one thing that you and I have found is the times where I get a chance to speak to groups, that this is normally not a subject that's talked about. Like last year we got invited to a church that we were the first couple ever at that church to talk explicitly, like we did, about the topic of sex and marriage. And it was just a Q and A largely. And one of those things is, once you get people started, it's really hard to stop them talking about it sometimes.
And so sometimes just to encourage her, keep plowing the field with the current friends group you've got of, "Hey, this is something that matters to me. And even though it may not be going on in your marriage bestie, I still want to talk about it," and see where that goes.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Because sometimes leading where you want it to go, you will find allies you didn't even know were there, because they just need a little bit of encouragement and an invitation to go there. And then you start to discover what's people's real stories. And what I typically find among us as humans, is when I can find people where we start to connect on some more real, authentic levels, regardless of I haven't had sex in 20 years, we had a great rousing interlude last night, difference, it still can trend towards positive. It can still kind of, we're pulling each other up in some ways, just because of the way we're encouraging. And we're real, and there's not as much of an agenda other than, I want to have the freedom to talk about this.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: And I want to hear the freedom from other people.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: And so sometimes you got to just lead that way and know it's going to shut some people down. Okay. Mark them off the list for right now of people I'm looking to go down that path with. Maybe they get an opportunity later.
All right. So before we segue to the extended content, I'm going to set it up, okay? So this is an email from episode 478, where specifically the husband emailed in talking about his weight and the struggle he had had all the way through marriage, but he had particularly gained weight during the marriage, that his wife was not at all attracted to it. And she was honest about that and upfront about it.
And so we landed on, that was when I was a little more salty on that episode, so I was a little more blunt. And so we landed on, "You know what you need to do, because the way you're framing the question. So lose the weight. What do you got to do to do that? So a guy emails in to just add a little more to the-

Pam Allan: From his perspective.

Corey Allan: From his perspective, because he was in the same boat, that he already had struggled with weight, and I'm just paraphrasing this because it was a lengthy email.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: So he had struggled with his weight, his wife had had similar statements to him about it. Life went on, they had several kids and that just added more struggle because you and I both know it is really easy to eat poorly in a fast paced society. Fast food is a simple, easy choice. It just isn't good for handling and keeping things healthy in the long run.

Pam Allan: Agreed.

Corey Allan: So what he finally figured out is that, okay, she keeps saying this is a hindrance. "I'm going to do something about it." And so, lo and behold, he did. He just got serious, worked out, changed his lifestyle, changed his healthy eating habits; everything, lost the weight. And lo and behold, didn't change anything in the bedroom.

Pam Allan: Is that right? Okay.

Corey Allan: So he even makes the comments in here of, "She really liked talking about his weight loss to other people and how she loved it, but when that little gatekeeper obstacle was removed to saying, 'Well, more sex will be happening if you were more attractive to me,' it didn't solve the problem.

Pam Allan: Hmm. Okay.

Corey Allan: So where we're heading in the extended content after we're kind of teasing this thing out, is what is the difference between trying to relieve the pain or the symptoms, versus addressing the problem? I love the fact that we can have a lot of the same theme come through-

Pam Allan: Yeah, and emails and different callers and listeners, yeah.

Corey Allan: Right. I mean, because this is to quote from Mark Gungor, whose Laugh Your Way to a Better Marriage. I love it because he's like, "I can't imagine God's up there when he's looking at us as sexual beings going, 'Oh, myself, I can't believe they would try that.'

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: It's like, nothing's going to shock him.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Because we were created by him, but I love it that we all still hit roadblocks and stumbles in hurdles that we've got to face. And I want to add the caveat of one, there may not be a solution to it, in the way we would want it for sure. But there may not be a solution. Marriage is not something we solve, it's something we live through. And some of life's problems are that way too. There's not a solution, it's something you live through, as in can you take the opportunities to learn as you're living through it, because then you become better. And I love that fact, that marriage is just a people growing process, man.

Pam Allan: It is.

Corey Allan: And it just grows really great people, like the people that make up the SMR nation.

Pam Allan: Exactly.

Corey Allan: Because they rock. This has been Sexy Marriage Radio. If we left something undone, please let us know: 214-702-9565, or feedback at sexymarriageradio.com. So wherever you are, whatever you've been doing, thanks again for taking some time out of your week to spend it with us. See you next time.