Speaker 1: You are listening to the regular version of Sexy Marriage Radio, smr.fm.

Speaker 2: You've turned on Sexy Marriage Radio, where the best sex happens in the marriage bed. Here's your host, Dr. Corey Allan.

Corey Allan: The world in which we live, Pam, I'm always fascinated by the research that comes out when it comes to the various things about our society, about marriage, about relationships, about sex and somebody, one of our listeners in the SMR Nation sent me, said, "Hey, I think you might be interested in this." It's something that was put together by Happify Daily. It's this long infographic and they start off with some of these stats may surprise you. And the first one they lead off with is two to three times per month is the amount of times the typical adult has sex. What's in parentheses on that is, this includes both married and single. It's like, I want to know about just the one side, the married side. And then I want to know about the single side, not just adults, because I think those are two totally different things.

Pam Allan: Yeah. Yeah. You're mixing apples and oranges in a survey here.

Corey Allan: Well somewhat, especially with, if you have any kind of a monogamous value added to it of you know what? This is, I'm going to be committed to this relationship. But it's a long infographic that just also talks about, of the married couples, once a week is actually the sweet spot. Is what they've kind of found. I like this idea, they've equated it to the similar kind of thing that they discovered about happiness with money. That after you reach a certain amount, having more doesn't necessarily make you exponentially...

Pam Allan: Happier.

Corey Allan: Happier.

Pam Allan: Right. It's that baseline where my basic needs are met and I'm not going to get a whole lot happier after my basic needs are met.

Corey Allan: Right. And so what they found was that sex is similar to income. That people are happy if they have as much as their neighbors and they're even happier if they have a little bit more.

Pam Allan: A little bit more.

Corey Allan: Some of that kind of stuff is great, but here's some of the things that made me kind of, oh, this is kind of good information. To get more satisfaction, cuddle up. Couples who cuddle after sex say they're more satisfied sexually and in their relationship.

Pam Allan: All right. It's not cuddling elsewhere. It's a cuddling after the act.

Corey Allan: After. Especially men, surprisingly kissing and cuddling is more important to men in longterm relationships than it is women.

Pam Allan: I would like to know why.

Corey Allan: Doesn't give me that information.

Pam Allan: I think we need people to call in and tell us why or go online.

Corey Allan: Let us know because I would be interested, where does this line up with you on how does this help your marriage? And what's difference? Because we frame all of this as a higher desire, lower desire and gender doesn't necessarily apply. I would be interested because I would imagine there's going to be a higher desire affection or touch that's not necessarily sex. That could be the cuddle. That can be the hands on, I just want to hold your hand. I want to touch shoulder, arm around, all the different things.

Pam Allan: My.smr.fm and tell us what your level of desire for that is.

Corey Allan: Yep. And then also you can call in, (214) 702-9565. Leave us a voicemail. If this spurs some conversation or some questions for you, we'll answer them. We want to go where you want to go to help make your marriage all it can be. And then of course, feedback@sexymarriageradio.com. That's where all the information has been for years and years and years, that we've been on the air. Well coming up on today's regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio is a couple of your questions that have come in over the recent weeks and our answers. And then on the extended content today, which is deeper, longer and there are no ads, you can sign up and learn more at smr.fm/smracademy.
We're going to have a conversation about a tool that I came across. It's been a little while ago that I came across this tool, but it's a fantastic way to frame, how do you address some of the issues that we face in life and that we face in marriage? And it's called the Circle of Responsibilities and it is a great resource that you can use for yourself and for anybody else. You and I have done this for each other, in a myriad of ways throughout our marriage as well. All that's coming up on today's show.
As we start off Pam, there was a question that came from one of the men that was in a mastermind group from recent past that he was regular listener and had made a comment about, we have talked at times about when you're dealing with the beauty around you because he's referencing a show. I do not remember the episode number, but it was one where I talked about how do we steer the triggers? Because one of the things that happens in married life is we fully believe here at Sexy Marriage Radio, 100% of your sexual energy needs to be kept within your relationship, within your marriage. You steer it there.
But a 100% of your sexual energy isn't always triggered from within your marriage. Because we live in a beautiful world among beautiful things and creatures. And all of those can create a stir, an arousal, a tinge, a something. And so he was going off of the idea that I had made a comment about driving to and from my office and being bombarded with several of the ladies that spring had sprung and they wanted to be out and seen. And so I made a call to you of, "Hey, I'm planning to come after you tonight and I hope you're available because I'm being bombarded." And you to your credit, we're like, "Thank you for the honesty. I'll see what I can do." Or something.

Pam Allan: Something like that.

Corey Allan: Or something like that. That I'm on board with that at this point in the day and we'll talk more when the day unfolds. But he was interested if I'd be willing to explore that a little bit more, because one of the things, if you were raised in the church or in the purity movement and in the true love waits and some of the different things that have come along, that you and I were both exposed to growing up to varying levels, one of the books and networks of books that came out along that time, that really was helpful in a lot of ways was the Every Man's Battle series by Steve Arterburn. And in it, he references the idea of bouncing your eyes. Which is the idea that if you see something that is appealing and is triggering, bounce away from it.

Pam Allan: To not sit and linger.

Corey Allan: Well, he's even going further than that. Don't even give a hint. I think that's kind of what it's based on. It's just immediately bounce away from it. And so when we were early in our marriage, that was a strategy I tried. Not successfully. Largely because the brain is a sneaky little thing.

Pam Allan: How so?

Corey Allan: A lot of times I would catch something out of the corner of my eye or you come up on it and it would be like, whoa, okay. Here we go. Bounce from that sucker. I do but what was lodged in there was just enough that I could distort it, that it wasn't even close to the reality of what the picture really was. I found my mind would actually have a greater likelihood of going down a rabbit hole that I didn't want to go, trying to fill in the pieces of, did I see what I just saw? And it's all enhanced or skewed.

Pam Allan: Because in your mind you're dwelling on it. It's bouncing the mind too.

Corey Allan: Yes. That's a great point because the mind is the main thing we're talking about here, not the eyes in that regard. That it's an input that comes in, but it's housed in the mind. And so you are right in that how do you go one step further and not just use it as what I was struggling with was the idea of I would just bounce, but there would be something that could kind of get caught in that loop. And it was hard to let go of at times.
What I actually found that worked better was whenever there was any kind of trigger, how do you, in a sense, drink it in to acknowledge the beauty of it but don't go further into the undressing, the wonder what, and all that other kind of stuff that is usually what seems to be the path? Because one of the knocks of trying to deal with this concept of lust and this is kind of the way it all kind of falls under that umbrella is, well if you even look at them, you're in the wrong. And I think we got a little more of a window here of width.

Pam Allan: Right. I would agree. Well, I agree with you on that, in that we got to stay holed up in our house with the door locked, if that's where we're going to go with it. I'm just in trouble because I'm setting an unrealistic expectation for myself at that point. But it feels like there's just a real fine line though when you say the wording with it, I guess kind of makes me cringe. The wording of look at it and drink it all in. That sure sounds like I'm going, oh my goodness. You look smoking hot. To me, that wording takes it to another level.

Corey Allan: I get what you're saying.

Pam Allan: When I'm the wife and I see those eyes lingering, if you're looking at something and drinking it in, I'm probably not going to be too excited about that.

Corey Allan: Okay, that's completely fair. Word choice matters. You're absolutely correct. But also meanings matter because is there a possibility maybe sipping it if we keep in the whole drink world, but acknowledging the beauty.

Pam Allan: I think acknowledging the beauty.

Corey Allan: That's a better way to phrase it.

Pam Allan: I think that's a better way to phrase it.

Corey Allan: To just say, "Wow. That's an attractive person. That's an attractive scene, that's an attractive whatever."

Pam Allan: And I don't want to point this just to the men doing that. The ladies...

Corey Allan: Totally. Ladies, are just as visual.

Pam Allan: Ladies are visual.

Corey Allan: It's just not espoused as much that way.

Pam Allan: Right, right, right. There's plenty of rock, solid fellows jogging down the street just the same way there are rock solid ladies jogging down the street. We can drink that in too.

Corey Allan: Oh see.

Pam Allan: We can linger and drink that sucker in.

Corey Allan: Okay. But it's just recognizing this idea because this is the thing that I think added a whole lot of power for my journey with this was acknowledging the beauty and then steering the thought. Because that's where you close the loop in the sense of, all right that was a trigger. There's some arousal that comes along with it because I don't even think that's in the category of sin yet if you have a biblical framework, because you got turned on by something. I don't think that's in the world of sin because lusting is actual an action not just a reaction.

Pam Allan: Wouldn't an action also be the dwelling in your mind?

Corey Allan: Yes, absolutely it would be.

Pam Allan: And so it is training your mind to realize, am I beyond my line?

Corey Allan: Which is why I love the idea in marriage, there is a place to steer that towards which is the marriage. And then it becomes important for both members of the marriage to recognize, okay, this is both of us maturing because that can be coming across as a threat of wait, you're going to be turned on by other people? How dare you? But as you get age and recognize, hold on, I live in the real world. I live among all kinds of triggers, instigators, whatever it could be across the board of severity. I'm more concerned about the actions associated with this person I'm with than what's their mind doing? What's their every thought? What's their every feeling? Because when you focus too much on thoughts and feelings, you're bound to have some serious volatility.

Pam Allan: Well, and some serious disappointments along the way. We're going to let each other down for sure.

Corey Allan: Yep. If you can keep it more in the realm of what's the decisions and actions associated with that person? That's the impact that it has on me. And that's where this idea of steering the thought I think is correlating to taking the thought captive. It's recognizing the power of it and utilizing it and making goodness out of it even, rather than letting it fester there in the dark. And so a lot of times, one of the best things we can do is just look through this whole thing as the lens of where am I steering my energy? And then also the other component that is absolutely vital and important to this that's honoring and respectful of the marriage in and of itself is, how am I putting myself in situations that keep me on the path I want to be knowing, okay, this typically doesn't go well if I go hang out at that spot or if I can go over with these people, because I'm putting myself in a situation that I'm going to have to steer all kinds of stuff.

Pam Allan: Well, certainly that's a bigger picture there. If I continue to put myself in, for lack of a better phrase, in harm's way. If I'm putting myself in all these situations or just in a regular recurring situation that I know doesn't prove to be healthy my mind then shame on me. I need to fix that.

Corey Allan: Yeah. And so this is really just about the self respecting moves that then your spouse is the beneficiary of.
An email came in they said, "I started listening to your podcast this year and love it. It's really opened my eyes to ways I can be a better all around husband to my wife. My wife and I started dating in high school and have been together for over 20 years, married 13. We are best friends and are more in love now than when we started dating. However, I've always struggled to last long enough to have my wife orgasm on a regular basis."
"Listening to the past podcasts, you've always talked about foreplay and doing other things to get her there. The problem is my wife only wants sex and is uninterested in oral or any other alternatives. She doesn't make a fuss about it and she still tells me she enjoys sex, but the orgasm gap is much higher than I would like it to be. I've tried creams and even medications that help some. Recently I read about ruining my orgasm as a way to prevent the refractory period and allow me to continue. Have you ever heard of this? Or do you have any opinions on it? I've tried to search online, but I always end up at sites that I'm uncomfortable with. Any ideas or thoughts are appreciated. Thanks."

Pam Allan: Okay. I think first we got to start by defining what ruining my orgasm is.

Corey Allan: Okay. I want to get there in a minute though.

Pam Allan: Okay then.

Corey Allan: I'm ruining it for us right now.

Pam Allan: You're ruining it for me.

Corey Allan: Okay. Well message delivered then I guess. No, because it's the couple of things that jump out first is he struggles to last long enough to have his wife orgasm, which sounds like he's trying to hope that she will orgasm through penile vaginal intercourse alone, which only from that research that we showed earlier, we talked about earlier in the show, one in four experience that ability. Then you are talking about having to come face to face with, she doesn't like the foreplay, she doesn't like the other things that are probably more tailored towards her experience and journey and pleasure. Now you're at a gridlock. He wants to do these things, she doesn't, and she says, "Everything's fine."

Pam Allan: Well, and she's got to want that, to be able to orgasm. He can't want it for her. There's a stalemate right there.

Corey Allan: Right. And so in some regards then you are going to come up against the gridlock issue of what you want versus what she wants and how do you still go after what you want, even if it's not totally what you want. And those are integrity things that you have to work through to decide.

Pam Allan: Does he have to let go of wanting her to have a vaginal orgasm? Does he have to let go of that want?

Corey Allan: I think you could still want it, but to put a whole lot of energy towards it when that's not something she's saying she wants or was willing to work towards then yeah. I can still want that for my partner, but a true act of caring and loving them is wanting for them what they want for themselves. And if what she's saying is, "I don't really want this," then it starts getting into, okay so how do you make it to where it's an experience you enjoy more, I guess at times? Which still equates to, how do I maybe learn how to control or delay an ejaculation a little bit longer because that's something that's still can matter. Because a lot of times guys, if they're too quick, it's like that was really anticlimactic. That was over too fast.

Pam Allan: Yeah. Well, okay. Maybe I'm way off base here, but he may not be going real fast. He may be lasting a pretty decent period of time, but she's still not vaginally orgasming. Him prolonging it with other things that make it take longer, maybe I'm overstepping my bounds here, but I'm just thinking, gosh, you're going to get resentful because now it lasts even longer.

Corey Allan: Now it takes too long.

Pam Allan: Right. And to quote Seinfeld, "Sometimes it's enough already and you just got to get some sleep."

Corey Allan: There are those times. Absolutely.

Pam Allan: I'm totally reading something into this so I'm sorry, sir, if I'm totally reading into it. Into your email.

Corey Allan: But this is also the dilemma of oftentimes when we're talking about finding a sweet spot in our sex life or even in all our areas of a life, the extremes are what we have to avoid and figure out where is that sweet spot of the middle? That's not the same every time, but it gets you close enough to where both of you are satisfied, engaged, looking for more. It's enough, but it's not enough. It's just kind of, everybody knows when you experience it. But to his question that you asked, let's define ruining it. From my understanding of this, and I did some searching to get some more information about it too. The main idea of ruining your orgasm is found mostly in the world of the BDSM culture. And it becomes a dominant thing where there's actually, you find some pleasure in the ruining of an encounter. Where it's almost a dominant submissive role and the submissive is not allowed to achieve orgasm and the dominant will ruin it to keep them from having it. And that's how they have their wiring has made it to where that's a pleasurable occurrence.

Pam Allan: And the methods of ruining it are?

Corey Allan: Across the board, and I did not go that far.

Pam Allan: Okay, because I'm thinking of all kinds of things. I just make you pull out and you can't continue on.

Corey Allan: Right. Some of it's just flat out verbal control, mental control. But some of it gets into a little bit more graphic.

Pam Allan: Yeah, painful.

Corey Allan: That's when I stopped. But one of the things I did find that can help is the similar concept called edging, which is the idea of you have to have a joint agreement with this to know it's happening. This is not something you pull on a spouse unbeknownst to them because that sets up the scenario where the partner, if you're practicing edging, which is helping you go longer and prolong things, your partner could finally be going, "Seriously? Get it over with already." Because they're not attuned enough to know you've actually almost reached climax several times, you've just figured out how to stop it, delay it, prolong it and then get going again.

Pam Allan: Well, that's kind of what my reference is and my question of I'm just whipped already and you're making it keep going.

Corey Allan: Right. The idea of edging is where as you're going through the cycle of an orgasm, which is what Masters and Johnson coined, which are the first ones that kind of started this whole thing, was you got the excitement stage, the plateau stage, the orgasm stage and then the resolution stage. You spend your time in the excitement, which is the buildup. The skin starts warming up, muscles get tense, heartbeat gets a little bit faster, you start getting involved in it. Plateau is where everything gets a little bit more intense, but you feel yourself drawing closer to that orgasmic stage. The idea is you have to figure out as a man and then this is similar to a woman. You have to figure out where's your point of no return? Which means because most men reach a point where that orgasm is coming. It hasn't quite achieved it yet, but nothing's stopping it.
Some of the FMRI research I've come across on a woman's brain though, they could actually get the first wave of an orgasm and it can get derailed. Yet again, the differences between males and females. It's just recognizing if you're talking about this for a man, it's understanding how can I get close to that point, but stop, find the way to calm down and soothe and then build back up again? That's why it's better to have a collaborative alliance with this thing, because then you can have a partner that understands what you're doing, because that might mean you do need to pull out for a moment, no movement because you don't want to trigger something that tips the scale too much.
But the thing I like about this concept is this is an incredibly powerful mental awareness exercise too. Of what's going on with both of you, because you can even do this and we've had emailers over the years that have brought this up, that they will practice this regularly with each other because it's almost like a tease too. Of oh no, no, no, please. Let me. No, not yet. I'm still having too. There's then you can play with that power dynamic a little bit.

Pam Allan: Yeah. If you're both in there having fun with that, that's fabulous.

Corey Allan: But this is also learning how to read each other, not just yourself. Because sometimes you can, when you get further into this, the hope would be as a spouse, you have a better picture of what's going on in your spouse's mind in these moments to know, ooh, he's almost right there. Oh, she's just about there. Okay, I could have some fun here and it's going to expand this and play with that area rather than, and this goes counter to goal oriented sex, which just means get the job done, make it functional and then move on with whatever's next. This is one of those arenas where you can actually learn some power within each other and with each other, that can be a pretty pleasurable experience.
And then you also get the benefit of maybe delaying it, maybe figuring out a little more mastery of the control of you and how things go and when to shift course. Because sometimes then it can be just as simple as you're in the middle of a sexual encounter, you feel the buildup going, it's getting there too quick and you don't want it to be done and nor does she, so just change positions rather than making it more like the laboratory of hold on, I really want to make this last. Take a break for a second by saying, "No, no, let's go do this." And that's all of a sudden you've done that in a subtler way to help delay it because it might take you a little bit to get revved up again. Mission accomplished in a lot of ways then because then you're starting to learn yourself and each other, not just try to reach orgasm. I hope I didn't ruin everything too much.

Pam Allan: Da, da, ch.

Corey Allan: For you there, babe.

Pam Allan: Okay. Thanks so much.

Corey Allan: Yeah. This is fun when we get a chance to kind of walk through just where people are in the SMR Nation and what's going on and what are some little things and some big things that can help with the situations? Because as we wrap this show up, what comes to my mind is a lot of times, I think we can start to feel stuck, which is what we talked about in the extended content, because I don't really know the big step. I don't know that big choice, that big thing that's coming and the truism I came across not too long ago, is I don't have to know the big step to know and be able to take the next little step. Because sometimes the next little step is just be good, be compassionate, be loving, be respectful, be honorable in the things and the way I carry myself and everything else will take care of itself as I get there.
This has been Sexy Marriage Radio. We left something undone, we want to hear from you, my.smr.fm is where you can join the conversation directly with us or feedback@sexymarriageradio.com. We'll see you next time.