Corey Allan: Coming to you live from the studios at the Sexy Marriage Radio empire, which is also a little bit like the infirmary right now.

Pam Allan: I like the word empire better than infirmary.

Corey Allan: Come and powering through to get another episode, because the Sexy Marriage Radio Nation shows up every single week-

Pam Allan: They do.

Corey Allan: ... to ask their questions, tell us what's going on in their world and we want to go where they want to go, because this is listener driven radio and the way you can let us know what's on your mind is you can give us a call at 214-702-9565 or always send in an email if that's your preference to feedback@sexymarriageradio.com.

Corey Allan: To wrap up a few things from last week, last week's episode, one of the segments we did was on the idea of how do you name some of the more delicate parts from a husband that was trying to figure out how to refer to the labia and his wife's dialogue between the two of them, because some of the words are just a little too crass or crude. And so we threw it out to the nation on hey, what do you think, if you've got any, and there were a couple that were mentioned that came in, in the Academy or via email. One was just from Ian Kerner's book, She Comes First. He just refers to the whole area from the proper medical term, which is the vulva, which that's sometimes has a little bit of a different connotation, maybe a little less medical feeling-

Pam Allan: True.

Corey Allan: ... for some people. And so that was one suggestion. And then another, and I kind of like this one. This is from one of our real active members in the Academy. She mentioned she loves something that sounds a little more delicate and a little bit of a flower, and so she said a tulip, cause it's two lips.

Pam Allan: All right, I can go with that one.

Corey Allan: That kind of worked too. That's fun and creative and it keeps it still light, but also a deeper connotation, which I think that's the whole point, isn't it Pam, to have a language that you developed between you and your spouse that has the meanings that you're trying to get across without going across the line, if you will, into the major discomfort zone. I like the two that were mentioned.

Pam Allan: I do too. I do too. And he comes home with a dozen tulips for her. That's a good sign, right? Every time we have a tulip out.

Corey Allan: Bringing home flowers. Bringing home flowers, whole different connotation with that. That's pretty good.

Corey Allan: The other thing that, to start off the show today, Pam, this is an email that just came in, because if there's ever a time where you and I as the faithful co-hosts of this empire that we're building, since that's the way we described it at the beginning, this email came in that says was just entitled Your Show Saved my Life.

Corey Allan: She goes on to say, "Three years ago, I was desperately searching for a way to save my marriage. Since so many issues seem to be due to my spouse's infidelity, I thought I'd try to fix our sex life, that that would be a logical starting point. I was immediately hooked and started binge listening up to eight episodes a day. Well, over the next few months, I discovered truth after truth. It takes two solid people for a healthy relationship."

Corey Allan: "So knowing I can only change my responses and working on fixing me, I went to see a counselor. I was diagnosed with severe depression and anxiety and had been struggling with these issues since childhood. I finally started confronting my assumptions, had real honest conversations with my family. It turns out these disorders run on both sides of my family and I finally had the help I needed while my marriage ultimately ended. I did escape emotional abuse, emotional abandonment and infidelity. I found my relationship with Christ, not just religion, and a family connection I had lost hope of ever feeling. Without your show, I would not have the joyful and fruitful life I share with my three year old son. You saved my life by showing me what I could be and helping me realize that I can be a complete person on my own. My mother took her own life and I don't know that my own depression was spiraling out of control. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your show. I tell everyone about you and will still listen to any shows that could apply to all other relationships. Love in Christ, Charity."

Pam Allan: Wow. Thank you Charity for sharing that and that message of hope right there. I mean, that's really gets kind of at the crux of what we want this show to be about. So that just is an inspiration-

Corey Allan: Absolutely.

Pam Allan: ... to both of us and hopefully to a lot of people listening.

Corey Allan: Absolutely. That's wind in the sails right there, because just knowing you can have that kind of an impact with people is unbelievably profound.

Corey Allan: Coming up on today's regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio, we have a couple of voicemails with the couple of questions buried within that we will then unpack and make multiple questions beyond just their original questions, because that's just kind of what we do when people call into our show. And on the extended version of Sexy Marriage Radio, which is deeper, longer and there's no ads. You can subscribe at SMRnation.com and join a growing group of Academy members that are carrying forth even more deeper conversations. We got another... this is a theme that comes through as a voicemail that came through and if you boil it all down, it really just comes down into how do I get my spouse to change? And so in the extended content, we're going to tell you how you finally get your spouse to change.

Pam Allan: I'm looking forward to hearing that one.

Corey Allan: All that's coming up on today's show.

Pam Allan: Okay. Okay. Before we play the first voicemail, Corey, give a shout out, Valentine's Day is coming up.

Corey Allan: That's right. The yearly made up holiday by Hallmark.

Pam Allan: Oh, come on. We love Valentine's Day.

Corey Allan: You're right.

Pam Allan: And it's a great time to maybe think about what are you going to do together to just enhance that relationship, so maybe the Sexy Marriage Radio getaway is something you want to give a gift for your spouse.

Corey Allan: Absolutely. I think that's a fantastic gift idea that you can deliver on Valentine's Day if you would like. And then the getaway comes along on June 18 through 21, this summer in the DFW area, registrations going on now. Early bird rate goes away April 15th, but Valentine's, that's a fantastic gift that you give now and then deliver later-

Pam Allan: Yeah, get to enjoy it in June.

Corey Allan: ... when you show up. And if you're interested, send us an email feedback@sexymarriageradio.com. We can quickly get back to you a little gift certificate to give as part of Valentine's gift next week if this is what you'd like to choose, of hey, I'm taking you away to the Sexy Marriage Radio getaway.

Pam Allan: Yeah, let us know by the 12th so we have time to get it together and email it to you.

Corey Allan: Absolutely. So just let us know and we can have it right in your inbox.

Speaker 4: Hey guys, I found your podcast the other day, so I am pretty new to Sexy Marriage Radio. I have a question that I thought I would ask and see if any others have similar experiences. First off, let me give you a little background. I am a pastor. My wife and I have been married for almost 19 years and we have five kids. Our sex life is absolutely amazing and it keeps getting better as the years go on. Over the last two or three years, my wife has been gaining a lot of freedom from past guilt and hesitations she has had because of her upbringing about sex. And thankfully I think most of it, if I'm being honest, is initiated by me, but then driven after that by her, so that's encouraging.

Speaker 4: Over the last two or three years, my wife's been changing her mindset as far as sex and really becoming more hey, sex is awesome and it's a gift and it's a grace of God and moving in that direction, which has been really cool. We are of the mindset that unless something is specifically prohibited in scripture, then there's a lot of freedom in married sex. We run everything that we do through kind of two or three principles. Is it biblical? Thank you Song of Solomon, by the way. Is it exclusive, meaning physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually exclusive, just between the two of us? And is it pleasurable or enjoyable for the two of us?

Speaker 4: Over the last three years, we've opened up to things like new positions, new techniques, toys, mutual masturbation, and my wife has full permission and encouragement to masturbate her own without letting me know, but she always does let me know. I think she knows it drives me crazy that she's doing that thinking about me and she's right, it does. But we're open and honest about our needs and we desire to meet each other's needs and move forward as we grow in the area of sex.

Speaker 4: My question is this. For the last three years, we've started implementing these things almost every night before we go to bed and almost every morning my wife enjoys touching herself and she doesn't always finish. She doesn't always orgasm, and in fact, most of the times she doesn't. Sometimes she'll start and then bring me into it, but most of the time I've got to get up and leave, which makes it really hard to leave, pun intended. And I love that she does this, but I'm wondering if you've come across this before with many other wives as they kind of gain some freedom in the area of sex. Are there others that do the same thing? Is it kind of just a comforting thing? I'm guessing it has something to do with it feels good and at night after the stress of the day are done, she can kind of relax and it feels good. And same thing in the morning, it's before the stresses of the day starts. It's something that she can do that is relaxing and she can relax and it feels good.

Speaker 4: But we just appreciate your insight and your thoughts on this. Again, I love that she does it and she enjoys it and I am always either there either mentally or physically, but it's a every morning and every night type of thing. Wondering what your thoughts are. Thank you guys. Appreciate what you guys are doing and keep it up.

Corey Allan: All right, so before we go to answering the question, I love the three little litmus test things that they use.

Pam Allan: The biblical, exclusive and pleasurable.

Corey Allan: Yeah, that's a good framework that couples that have the moral framework that falls in line with scriptures. That's what they're trying to do. That's a good framework to look at all of this through, because we put so many other additional things in based on the first time we heard about something and it immediately struck me as oh no way, and I never had the courage to revisit it or first time I experienced something can be not pleasurable, and so I don't ever want to go back and experience it, because all of this is about courage of just growing into self, which it sounds like that's what the journey his wife has been on is just growing into her own power, her own pleasure, her own presence, her own vibrancy, her own sexuality.

Corey Allan: And so back to his question of regular self touch. I don't know if... I don't have any data or research on how common is it, but it is things I've come across before that people have referred to or I've heard secondarily it'd be referred to, meaning people that can find the sexual pleasure that comes from manual stimulation is a tremendous stress reliever. It just takes the edge off.

Pam Allan: Right. Absolutely.

Corey Allan: And it's not to the point of climax like he's talking about, it's just to the point of comfort. I mean in some regards there is research, now that I'm thinking of it and I don't know, I can't think of the name of it, but they have found that children find their... infants have found their genitalia can quickly, the brain can relate the stress relief from the feeling of that pleasure, of that tingle, of that interest, of that curiosity, of that what comes along with self exploration. And so some children they, especially where the research was done found it was more common in really stressful, chaotic environments, that that's how children could escape that feeling, which makes complete sense, because you have control of that.

Pam Allan: Sure.

Corey Allan: So it is something that is out there in the... he's onto the rationale of it's just a way to escape at times. It's just a way for pleasure at times. You can also add to it, it's just a way to make up for some lost time of this just feels good. Why would I not go do it?

Pam Allan: Yeah. I guess some of my question is, was the question more about whether that's common or not, or is it just the act or is it common for it to be pretty much every night and every morning?

Corey Allan: Well, sure. I mean there's probably an element of if it's that frequent, is that cause for concern?

Pam Allan: That's how I heard the question, I guess. I don't know if either words concern or just maybe wanting a confirmation that-

Corey Allan: Curiosity at least.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: I mean we all, we all at a human level, don't we all want to know am I normal?

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: The things that I do, my little quirks and nuances.

Pam Allan: Yeah, that's a very common thought process for all of us.

Corey Allan: So I will do some just quick little polling data among friends that I'm willing to be that exposed with, with my questions. Again, going back to the framework they use of the three, he does not sound like he has a problem with it at all, so he might have a little bit of a problem, because he's asking the question and that's underneath it.

Pam Allan: The sound... yeah. The sound from it was, God, I love that she does this. I hate that I have to walk away and go to work. Right. I hate that I have-

Corey Allan: That job getting in the way of a really blessed few level sex life.

Pam Allan: Right. So I'm sure there's a lot of people listening that are just totally jealous of what it is that it sounds like she's found, because it sounds like she's found... there's so many women that are not in tune with their bodies and don't understand what it is they need to really take control and feel like they know what they want from their body and how to make that happen. So it's really kind of this fabulous point that it sounds like she's reached, that she gets it and she's understanding her body. I'd say that's a pretty beautiful thing.

Corey Allan: I do too. And to his point being, it's something, it's a dynamic they have found within their relationship that they can utilize to enhance, to tease, to pressure, that's a great vibrancy to add to any layer if you can to a relationship, because again, this is the route we've taken all the years on Sexy Marriage Radio, things that stay in secret of the things that start to become destructive. And if there's a... even if it's a regular occurrence, if there's an openness to it and it's not in... what am I trying to think of it with the word? It's not leaving a spouse out of it. It's inviting them into it.

Pam Allan: Well and I guess that's what I was about to bring up, because I can just hear people emailing in and saying, "Well if the guy's masturbating every day, we'd say that that was a bad thing." Right? Or stereotypically right.

Corey Allan: That's fair.

Pam Allan: We'd get on the where someone messages in-

Corey Allan: And I'm curious, are there guys out there that masturbate, but not to climax, because that would almost a unicorn for a lot of men I think. But there's an element of do you masturbate just for the feel, but you don't reach ejaculation? Because adolescent boys, my experience, at the risk of TMI and it's all for a goal. It wasn't for the pleasure. It was for the end result.

Pam Allan: Sure, and it sounds like in this she's incorporating him in it a bulk of the time. It just sounds like it's kind of a duo for a big part of this relationship.

Corey Allan: And yes, there isn't a little bit of an element that men, and this isn't across the board because some men have incredibly high sex drives, but men that have real frequent levels of masturbatory experiences are likely to... that's going to impact performance whenever sexual intercourse is happening. That's a common because of the refractory period, just because of the way the brain and the biology works in the difference between male and female. But you make a fair point because there is this element of there's a stereotype and for whatever reason a woman doing this every day as a turn on to a lot of men rather than if it's the reverse a woman could be how dare you.

Pam Allan: Or just [inaudible 00:19:09].

Corey Allan: It could be that too. Yeah.

Pam Allan: Anyway.

Corey Allan: Yeah, that's a fair point, but I hear it when they're talking about it in the context of their relationship. It's an empowering thing. Yeah. It's a thing they can use that's enhancing and empowering each other and the relationship and I think if that's the dynamic, go for it. Keep it in the open, utilize that power and see where it can also can lead you.

Speaker 5: Hi, first, I just want to thank you guys for doing this. There's not many platforms like you guys, so I'm just really thankful. I actually found you guys pretty recently and I've been looking and listening to a lot of your stuff. I just had a question. So I'm 22 and my husband is 23 and we've only been married for about eight months, but sex in marriage is not what I thought it would be. We probably have sex, unfortunately, about once or twice a month, which I know is healthy and it's not, not either of us want.

Speaker 5: We were both virgins when we got married and my husband does not last that long in bed. He lasts about two or three minutes and it just has been really hard for me, because I feel like I'm just not able to reach a point of climax. I know that's not just what sex is, but even that two or three minutes, I feel like you barely have to connect. And I listened to some of your stuff about premature ejaculation and things like that, but nobody seems to be our age. People seem to be older and having been married for 20 plus years. And so I just didn't know if you had any advice for younger couples.

Speaker 5: And obviously, we do foreplay and things like that, but it just has been really hard for us. And my husband is kind of overweight and it's been hard, because I'm feeling frustrated and I don't feel that attracted to him and I want to be, and I love him and I want to have that level of intimacy, but it just really hard. And so if you guys could give any input, I'd be so greatly appreciative. I really don't want to leave our marriage in a place of just lack of sex and stuff. Yeah. So thank you so much again. Bye-bye.

Corey Allan: I love when younger individuals, couples find our show.

Pam Allan: Yeah, I wish we had had this when we first got married, right?

Corey Allan: Not as hosts.

Pam Allan: No.

Corey Allan: No one would listen to that-

Pam Allan: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Corey Allan: ... at point in our life.

Pam Allan: No, I mean, what you're experiencing is so normal. You're marrying as virgins. He's got to figure out, and there are exercises you can do together, things you can do together to make it to where he can last longer. And more than likely, that's a lot of what this is. It's kind of a training of the brain, right?

Corey Allan: Right. It's a brain and a sensation thing going on. That's one level of this, because there's another level on picking up from her that I think can be at play. And here, let me kind of lay it out-

Pam Allan: Yeah, do that.

Corey Allan: ... in the way I hear this and you tell me, speaking as a woman who was married young with me if this rings true. So she's made the comment that he only lasts two to three minutes, which that's statistically speaking around average for men across the board of actual penal penetration to orgasm.

Pam Allan: Okay. You're not talking about the total time you're erect, that's-

Corey Allan: No. I'm going off of he lasts two to three minutes and I don't know if that means from the time he's aroused to ejaculation or that means the time they actually start sex to ejaculate. I'm going off of actually starting the intercourse part of the show.

Pam Allan: I would assume that too. Yeah.

Corey Allan: She mentioned we do foreplay and all that stuff, that... I'm curious about what. If this couple was sitting in my office, I would actually be saying describe your foreplay to me.

Pam Allan: Yeah. What does it look like?

Corey Allan: Detail. I want to know what do you do, because my hunch is they just do enough to get an erection or get a little bit of lubrication maybe and then they get going. They don't see foreplay could be part of the main event. And so slow that down is one thing. And also utilize the concept of foreplay happens long before foreplay actually... clothes are starting to come off. Get the brain going.

Corey Allan: Then the other thing that I'm going to pick up from is her comment about how he's gained a lot of weight or he's overweight-

Pam Allan: Overweight.

Corey Allan: ... and so her attraction has changed. It's incredibly difficult, and this is where I want your opinion as a woman, it's incredibly difficult to let go and be responsive and be engaging and be aroused when there's not a level of attraction there. That's a big gap to try to fill or jump across.

Corey Allan: So there's two issues going on. One is his premature ejaculation, that the same things that we talk about with men that are older, same kind of stuff. It's desensitization. It's anxiety based. It's goal orientation. It's learning confidence. It's redefining how do you view you and how do you view your sexual prowess. But then the other thing that's going on is her role in the whole dynamic of her experience in it. Does she bring herself forward and say this is what I'm really facing?

Pam Allan: Right, because he might be reading something in her and whatever her face or body languages and stuff like that, which is increasing [crosstalk 00:25:47].

Corey Allan: Which can exacerbate the issue. Right, because-

Pam Allan: ... because he's got whatever going on in his head too.

Corey Allan: I'm getting the read from you, you're not enjoying this. So I'll just get it over as fast as I can. That's a very common marital practice, that it's not that it's painful, it's just that she's not totally absorbed in it and so therefore I don't want to stay around that as long as I have to. And that's just our further ingraining of that training.

Pam Allan: Yeah. And then you both get disappointed because that's maybe not what you wanted.

Corey Allan: And so it comes down to how do you face the deeper dynamics that could be being revealed in this, which can be you know what, some things have changed in our relationship since we got married, which is going to happen. That is a normalcy that-

Pam Allan: Totally.

Corey Allan: ... one of the issues that happens when all of a sudden the whole, what's forbidden is now allowed, desire changes within that.

Pam Allan: Totally.

Corey Allan: Right. It's just a different draw, because there's something in us that just wants to rebel, that wants the rebelled part or the I can't have, the untouchable part. So that dynamic is going to be at play early in marriage, if not through the life of marriage. But the other is if he truly has changed his body image, his style since they've been married, that's a different thing too. That's a whole different message, because any spouse, this is not just male or female-centric, any spouse that starts to let themselves go soon as the marriage happens, and I don't know if that's exactly what happened here. Did you hear that or am I reading into it?

Pam Allan: No, I didn't hear that. She didn't say he's become overweight. Just says he's overweight.

Corey Allan: He's a little bit overweight. Okay.

Pam Allan: And if they were virgins when they got married, they may not have seen each other naked beforehand. Right?

Corey Allan: That's fair.

Pam Allan: And so when you see someone clothed versus now unclothed, it's a whole different thing.

Corey Allan: It's dispelling of what your perceived was.

Pam Allan: Yeah, a whole-

Corey Allan: That's fair.

Pam Allan: ... different thing.

Corey Allan: Okay. Well, then I don't need to go down that route. But there's still an element of, okay, what you see matters, but who the person and how they carry themselves matters more.

Pam Allan: True.

Corey Allan: Right. Because you and I have talked about this over the years of our marriage, about how there's some people that... there's all shapes and styles of bodies out there. And some of the most confident, sexy people we're not, that we've known and had in our life, aren't people that would be on a runway and the typical model. They were voluptuous, curvy people, maybe even on the point of overweight. But man, they carried themselves in a very sexy way, because they were good with themselves. And so a lot of this has happening simultaneously, that it's both of you being exposed to life behind the curtain.

Pam Allan: Yeah. Eight months in. I mean, truly it is. I mean, the curtain is coming back and you're seeing it and it's a whole new dynamic you've got to deal with. But that doesn't mean it's terrible.

Corey Allan: No.

Pam Allan: It's just a different dynamic and the beauty is the more you start seeing it now and don't hide from what you're seeing and what's concerning you right now... don't hide from it, address it together, and that's what's going to create the change for you going forward.

Corey Allan: That's the deeper levels of intimacy right off the bat.

Pam Allan: Yeah. I'm curious if he's listening or if it's just you or if you're striking up conversations from potentially what you've been listening to that could help that, but there are things for you guys to do together to work on all the above, right?

Corey Allan: Right. I'm also curious how much have you overlayed what your dating life was like versus what your married life is like? Do you still take time out for each other or your world's just constantly intertwined with each other? Do you still have your own things that you're doing and then you come back together or you've taken the time to hey, let's meet here, or hey, let's, or you're stealing time that's truly steered towards that aspect of your relationship, the romantic and the sexual or not, because sometimes the early parts of married life, that all gets thrown aside, because it's we're going to go to bed together every night. I don't have to work as hard anymore to get you in the mood or think about it. We're just going to... I'll roll over. And so if they both are saying it's our sex life is not what we want, now's the time to test to see if that's really true, because if it's what you want, then you want something different than speak up.

Corey Allan: So as we've done recently, Pam, we're setting up the extended content with a voicemail-

Pam Allan: Excellent.

Corey Allan: ... in the regular content. And so if you want our answer, you need to go to SMRnation.com/SMRAcademy and join if you're not already a member.

Pam Allan: Perfect.

Corey Allan: So after this, we'll see you on the other side, hopefully.

Speaker 6: So you guys are really enjoy the show. I just discovered you guys just probably 10 days ago now and I've listened to a ton of episodes and everything. Really appreciate what you guys are doing here. My wife and I have been married for 18 years and yeah, I mean there's a dynamic there. I really, I fall right in line with Dr. Fife, Jennifer Finlayson-Fife, because we are LDS ourselves and so conservative and whatnot, but age 41 and 38. My wife is 38 and so the issues that we have here.

Speaker 6: And I just kind of want to get around to asking the question, how can I convince my wife to want to educate herself more? I know that there's some depression there and then actually we've got a therapy session coming up here in a couple of weeks. We've already scheduled that, but to address that. But I think that half of this is like you have led to say that the depression is a biological and psychological. So she doesn't do any type of reading and the amount of reading that she has the doing it does bless her life a little bit, but I just want her to be able to... I just want her to be able to read and discover all of the greatness and the goodness and the glory that I get to enjoy myself. I don't know. Probably just the... that's a question that I have. Anyway, I appreciate what you guys do, and I really enjoy the show and I will continue to look more and more until you hear the systems and what you guys do. So thanks.

Corey Allan: Well if you're catching this right after the voicemail just ended and you missed the extended content, I hope you'll come join us in the Academy so you can hear more-

Pam Allan: Yeah, it was a fun time.

Corey Allan: ... of our answer.

Pam Allan: It was good conversation.

Corey Allan: I don't know if we actually solved that dynamic, because you can't solve the dynamic.

Pam Allan: Well, solving and giving a good lens to look at it and some tools and how to look at it.

Corey Allan: Right, which is what this whole show is all about.

Pam Allan: Yeah. That goes a long way.

Corey Allan: Right. We're trying to frame it so that it's understandable to you better. And then you figure out what do I do in the midst of this that is better and I love the whole idea of I scream at the wind or I adjust my sails, because how much of our world is just screaming at the wind-

Pam Allan: Screaming at the wind.

Corey Allan: ... right now?

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Well, this has been Sexy Marriage Radio. Thanks for taking some time out of your day to spend it with us. With Valentine's Day, fast approaching, if you want to bring your spouse to the getaway, please do. Let us know, feedback@sexymarriageradio.com. We can get you a coupon or the little gift certificate that shows I'm taking you to get away.

Pam Allan: We'd love to meet you guys.

Corey Allan: We would official. Yeah. Meet you-

Pam Allan: Love to see you face to face.

Corey Allan: ... meet you in real life, in human life, not just on the air. Well, if we left something undone, 214-702-9565. Wherever you are, whatever you've been doing, thanks for taking some time out. I hope to see you next time.