“Invigorating the Coin Collecting Hobby,” Part 3: Customer Engagement, and the “Mint Customer of the Future”

forum_jeppson-speaking

U.S. Mint Principal Deputy Director Rhett Jeppson (back of the room) clarifying a point.

This story was updated at 7:35 p.m. on 10/18/16 to include demographic data that the editor overlooked. — Diana Plattner, Mint News Blog editor

At last week’s Numismatic Forum held by the United States Mint, much of the discussion revolved around the Mint’s customers, past and present. As the venerable institution nears its 225th anniversary (1792–2017), its officers seek “new engagement with the American people,” to reinvigorate the hobby and build fresh excitement around coin collecting.

If you look at the demographics of the Mint’s mailing list over the past 10 to 15 years, in many ways it’s like holding a mirror up to the wider coin-collecting community. From 2000 to 2007—during the heyday of the State quarters program, when the Mint had a healthy mainstream-media advertising budget, and before the Great Recession hit—there was an upward trend in the number of Mint products sold and in the bureau’s revenue. Since 2008 there’s been a slow, steady decline across several fronts.

The Mint has fewer active customers (in 2008 its customer base was above 1,200,000; today it’s less than 500,000). Sales and revenue from numismatic products vary from year to year, depending on the coins being offered, but in recent years both measurements are trending down. The numismatic products’ net income returned to the U.S. Treasury (which is where the Mint’s “profits,” to use a term from the private sector, are deposited) is moving downward.

Those collectors who are buying coins today are older, with fewer in the 18–44 age range (dropped from 14% to 8% from 2011 to 2015), fewer aged 45–64 (dropped from 56% to 40%), and many more aged 65 years and up (rose from 30% to 52%). One Mint official noted that new buyers who are attracted to the Mint’s products by an interest in a particular commemorative coin or program will typically stick around for about two years. Then they stop buying more coins, and leave the active-customer list.

At 87%, men are the Mint’s main numismatic customer segment today. In terms of ethnicity, those identifying themselves as “White” have declined slightly since 2006, but still make up the bulk of the customer base (from 90% in 2006 to 86% in 2015). Are there opportunities to attract more women to the hobby, and/or more minorities?

One Numismatic Forum participant opined that there’s a difference between collecting coins and buying coins. He noted history, people, stories, and relationships as things that attract collectors and keep them in the hobby. According to a Mint official, its recent feature articles about Ronald Reagan, published online, increased not only the amount of reading time spent by customers at www.USMint.com, but also the rate at which they placed orders. Another participant observed that in China, many coin buyers are in their 30s. “They’re buying coins on their cell phones,” he said. “Banks sell coins. There’s a tremendous push to celebrate their heritage and culture.” He suggested that if we effectively communicate coins’ history to kids in the United States, they’ll respond. He also said we need to get creative for the female audience, as the comic-book industry has with great success.

The Ronald Reagan Presidential dollar.

The Ronald Reagan Presidential dollar. Feature stories written by the Mint increased customers’ interest in the coin.

Another participant pointed out that younger generations of Americans rarely see and use coins—and the same for many of their parents. Day-to-day transactions are conducted with credit and debit cards, phones, and apps. This presents a challenge when it comes to engaging young potential collectors. Still, the recent memory of the huge success of the State quarters program, which attracted tens of thousands of young collectors to the hobby—at least for a time—offers hope that coins can be relevant to them, even as countless other distractions competefor their time and attention.

There was discussion about promoting numismatics to school boards, to encourage using coins as educational tools. One participant pointed out that educational curricula already are jam-packed with state-mandated requirements, making it difficult if not impossible to shoehorn new concepts into the school year. Another, however, suggested that standalone modules could be written up, maybe connecting coins to different months or seasons, giving teachers the option to plug them into their lesson plans as supplemental materials when the opportunity arises.

Two related notes:

  1. The American Numismatic Association’s “Coins for A’s” program comes to mind. If a student earns three or more A’s, the ANA will send them a coin and give them a free one-year club membership. “Home-schooled students are encouraged to participate,” says Rod Gillis, the ANA’s Education Director. “In fact, about 10 percent of the Coins for A’s participants are home-schooled students.”
  1. The U.S. Mint’s H.I.P. Pocket Change program includes games, cartoons, news, workshops, and other activities and information for kids, along with lesson plans (for K–12, by coin program, and in unit plans) for teachers.

Other ideas from the Numismatic Forum included:

  • connection of coins to cultural traditions (e.g., gift-giving)
  • creation of hobby books for children
  • mass-marketed packages (with a Red Book, a three-month membership to the ANA, a subscription to Coin World or Numismatic News, etc.), sold in stores
  • focusing on kids’ motivations: competitive spirit, getting high scores, sharing, gaming
  • the value of a coordinated marketing campaign, like the “Got Milk” program
forum_breakout-group

A breakout group discussing future coinage programs.

Part of the Numismatic Forum included breakout groups focusing on specific topics and then reporting back to the main assemblage. Some of the conversation-guiding questions that centered around customer engagement and working with youth included:

  • How do we identify and engage the Mint customer of the future?
  • What should the Mint be doing to help develop future numismatic customers?
  • Do you see a need for different strategies focused on various demographic sectors?
  • Does the Mint’s product profile appeal to the customer of the future?
  • How do we get young people engaged in the hobby?
  • What can seasoned coin collectors do to attract young people and get them interested in numismatics?
  • What are some examples we know about coin clubs getting young people involved in the hobby?

These are important questions not just for the U.S. Mint, but for the hobby community as a whole, and for individual collectors to be thinking about. What are your thoughts?

Up next: mintage limits, household ordering limits, medals, packaging, and more.


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Comments

  1. cagcrisp says

    “The Mint has fewer active customers (only about half of its recent peak). Revenue is trending down, and the net income returned to the U.S. Treasury (which is where the Mint’s “profits,” to use a term from the private sector, are deposited) is sliding downward. Those collectors who are buying coins today are older (with fewer and fewer in the 18–44 age range, and many more aged 65 years and up). ”

    That says about all that needs to be said. There will be winners and losers.

    IF the individual doesn’t have a plan then you’re going to end up owning some expensive “Buy what you Like”…

  2. The Kid says

    Make a “ten dollar” Hi Ho Silver coin and see if kids get excited, and yes it must be 100 percent real silver.

    Tonto

  3. Teach says

    I don’t think kids would understand the reference Hi Ho Silver. Heck, 30 year olds probably don’t .

  4. Karl Meyer says

    Coins to me have more than anything been history. the mint could remint old historical coins for the history classes or make medals that aren’t coins but still look like the old coins. I remember loaning my daughter’s American History teacher a 1802 large cent when they were at that period in their lessons and she was amazed at the interest by the students. She was amazed also cause she had never seen one before. Coins of the different periods in history would be an asset to teaching what is otherwise a boring subject till you get old enough to appreciate history. Another teacher when she was younger had asked the class what would be around in ten thousand years and I answered for her coins and then sent her to school with an Alexander the great coin of 2200 years. History becomes alive when you can touch it.

  5. Jerry M. says

    Reason silver coins became collectible was the inherent value realized when we dropped the precious metal standard. Today, precious metal coins cost more than the inherent value. What is there to collect? If the value continuously increases then there is to potential to collect, otherwise bubble values become rip-off opportunities. Stop focusing on gimmicks. You tried everything except the obvious.

  6. Barry says

    If you want kids to start collecting try putting animals on the coins. It would be educational and fun. Maybe have a wildlife or farm animal series. Make circulating coins , mint them in PM. A lot of variations are possible. No doubt someone has mentioned this before or something similar. They should do something outside the box.

  7. Jamers Smith says

    Pricing has to do with the decline. Look how little the price was cut for the 2016 sets with 3 Presidential dollars. I never collected to make an immediate profit, but I just bought coin sets at one third of what they sold for at the mint a few years ago..

  8. MarkInFlorida says

    Were there more collectors when PM prices were going up, and less now that they are stagnating? Is the drop in customers mostly for PMs, or all coins?

  9. Mark Rex says

    Catching up on the last three articles now. I received my C&C RR Set Ronell today.

    I apologize in advance for not being able to produce high-quality videos like others. I use my iPhone and I am no equipment or persons to assist me. I live in a rural area with no broadband Internet so I get 6 GB of data for hotspot and I can’t see that to upload a video in HD. Need The hotspot data for other stuff but I get unlimited data and on my phone and it allows me to upload only SD from my phone.The video I uploaded is my unboxing of the 2016 CC RR Set. I will try to get it uploaded in 1080i HD HD ASAP.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU2uM2JxlN0

  10. KEITHSTER says

    Your all kiddin right if the Mint wants to get kids in on this they have to make a game app. Call it killer coins or some such thing? The higher the grade the more powers the coin has! The key coins well they start any car you attached it to so you can drive around and run over the others that are carrying bags of more coins thus adding to your collection. Then they can be checked for the power coins you don’t have! Well you get the picture then sell millions of them or better yet give the first one away free just to get the little boogers hook? Then when you got the whole world playing it hope they put it down long enough discover the real thing? Oh well never mind we’re doomed! But Good Luck All:>:>:>:> >:>:>:>:

  11. Tinto says

    Received my RR C&C set today. Nice but too bad the Mint had to insert a plain old proof ASE instead of the usual silver medal, which to me makes the set special. And even though I learned from MNB folks here that the inclusion of the Proof ASE could be due to RR signing the legislation … there is no mention of that in the folder. Instead they just included a description of the ASE …… someone not familiar with that legislation would be wondering .. Wha…. the …

    Quite disappointing … this is something completely within the control of the Mint and they plain dropped the ball (as usual) .

  12. Tinto says

    Seems Coin Vault has resumed on cable TV (at least where I am) … they’re hawking a RR C&C set with a Proof 70 UC ASE for $150 plus $10 shipping (but they keep displaying a Proof 69)

  13. Jerry Diekmann says

    Regarding different kinds of coins – many years ago I sent a recommendation to the Mint of honoring Americans who were unsung heroes. I supplied the Mint with a list of people who I thought were worthy to be so honored, from all walks of life, all races, creeds, colors, and genders. One of them I remember was Jonas Salk, who was pictured alongside FDR on the March of Dimes dollar from 2015. All of the people in my list had made notable, but sometimes unknown, or barely known, achievements and contributions to improving the lives of all Americans. I wrote a short paragraph describing the accomplishments of these heroes (the list contained about 50 names) and sent it as a package to the Mint. I also sent a package to the “Coin World” newspaper. The editor, Beth Deisher, promptly shot down my idea as too many coins and too many people that too many people don’t know. But isn’t that the purpose of coins – an avenue for our government to tell its citizens that there are more than just dead Presidents to honor and be proud of???” As for the Mint, I never even received a reply. Someone there probably pitched the package into the nearest wastepaper basket. Years later and the Mint finally comes around to asking citizens for their input. I spent a lot of time and effort and research on my failed project, and I was either ahead of my time or I’m just a damn fool who wasted his time on some quixotic project. I wonder if Mr. Tucker and the other members of the CCAC would be interested in seeing my recommendations – they now must be over six or seven years old – assuming I can still find them somewhere on my computer or a hard copy stored somewhere. And since I am a little older and hopefully a little wiser now, I would add a few names to the recommended list. I don’t particularly care about the metals used in the coin (except don’t make any coin with manganese in it, like the not-so-“golden” dollar” – manganese tarnishes badly – you would think the Mint would have known this from their “silver nickels” of World War II. The coins need to be at least the size of a quarter to portray the individuals, and they could be made in various alloys and in proof and uncirculated condition. Ideally they would be circulating coins, maybe starting in 2021 after the ATB quarters have run their course. I think my idea still has merit, even if the Mint and “Coin World” didn’t think so.

    P.S. – Although I can’t take credit for it, I did recommend to “Coin World” in 1993 that a commemorative coin should be issued in remembrance of the 250th anniversary of the birth of Thomas Jefferson. Someone at the newspaper or a reader who had more clout than me may have run with this recommendation, and Congress finally mandated such a coin, but not until the next year was underway – 1994. Nonetheless, the coin was minted with the 1993 date on it. I was very happy to see this founding father so recognized on a commemorative dollar.

  14. DBR says

    How do you get younger people interested in coinage and currency? Have adults realize that we all have a “relationship” with money; yes, a relationship. And where does this relationship come from? Our parents and our upbringing.

    How each of us relates to money occurs when we are children. We may not have any money but we are watching everyone around us spend it.

    This leaves a profoundly deep impact on us all. Were you born into abundance or scarcity? Did you have an allowance or not? Ultimately by the time you are an adult, do you know the value of a dollar? And by that I mean a hard-earned dollar.

    Whether you like the financial guru Suzy Orman or not, her audiences for her infomercials confirms the belief that we all have a very emotional relationship with money.

    Will our children ever be ready for credit and debit cards as their first introduction to money? Children will learn what is valuable by those around them. If children are given coins and currency for allowances and they are taught how to count money in first grade via coinage and currency pictures, why not allow for real life props?

    Folks, this goes way deeper than how to market a mere hobby. Just ask someone who lived through the depression versus someone to the manor born. Different yes? And yet money means survival. It’s primal.

    Watch the opening sequence to the film “To Kill a Mockingbird” and you will see a magnificent and nostalgic portrayal of what children collect and find valuable. You’ll see coins.

  15. So Krates says

    A picture is worth a thousand words. Seems that even the picture used for this article shows the Colonel leading from behind.

  16. Don Cantrell says

    How about a design competition by school kids. Pick five coins to be minted, with one highlighted as overall winner and a special coin for that design. Get the kids involved in the process. Have a cash prize for selected designs. Maybe even actually involve them in the planning. Think outside of the box. If it works, have a series.

  17. Felson says

    I believe that kids reflect the adults they know. I’d suggest most adults have little interest in coins, and that has been the trend since the 60’s when the circulating coin became simply an article of exchange, and nothing of real value. I don’t see that trend changing in these times of debit cards and cashless transactions. My 30 something kids avoid coins in everyday transactions, and are setting the precedence for their kids.

    Often what coins they have are thrown into a jar or plastic jug and left to collect dust until they have enough to merit a trip to Walmart to cash in the change.

    I don’t perceive the trend changing anytime in the future. Modern coins will not become collectors items until well past my lifetime. Most kids today have little interest in coins period, let alone commemorative coins, or classic never before seen coins. Coins mean nothing to them and probably never will. In fact many of them have little time for cash at all – paper or metallurgical.

  18. asherspapa says

    I posted elsewhere and just mailed a letter to the Mint suggesting what I at least think would be an exciting new series–one that combines revitalizing the forgotten half dollar and recognizing the NASA Space Program. There is legislation out there for a 2019 set of commemorative coins for the 50th anniversary of the Apollo Landing, but few people ever see commemoratives–it’s no like any of them ever get into circulation!
    One of JFK’s notable achievements was challenging the U.S. put a man on the moon by the end of the 60’s in a speech at Rice Stadium in late 1962, when the U.S. had only completed two orbital missions. It was an audacious goal since very little of the technology needed for a moon mission even existed at the time. His goal, however, was met as we know on July 20, 1969.

    Rather than issue obscure commemoratives, why not make it part of the circulating coinage by replacing the current JFK obverse with an image of the moon landing (still an “Eagle”)? Issue PD versions in circulating quantities, along with S clad and silver proofs.

    After 2019, a series could begin recognizing each mission in the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo programs that led to the moon landing with appropriate designs (spacecraft, astronaut(s), distinct mission achievements–such as space walks, dockings, etc.). Each new issue could be released on the anniversary date of the manned mission, beginning with Mercury 3/Freedom 7 (Alan Shepard) on May 5, 2020; Mercury 4/Liberty Bell 7 (Gus Grissom) on July 21, 2020; Mercury 6/Friendship 7 (John Glenn) on February 20, 2021, etc.

    Interest in U.S. space exploration has faded, but it is still a distinct achievement and such a program could (1) bring the half dollar back, (2) bring new blood into the hobby, and (3) honor the U.S. space program.
    What I don’t know is if such program would require Congressional action, or if the Mint can make its own decisions about circulating coins.

    By the way, I tried to submit this to the CCAC, but attempting to go to the CCAC website results in the dreaded “Your Connection is not secure” message. There’s apparently something wrong with the site.

    Didn’t get any comments I saw the last time I suggested this, but that was in the midst of some unrelated topic. Anybody support such an idea, and anyone in a position to collaborate on getting it before the right people?

  19. Drew S says

    It’s just like anything else, if you want coin collectors, you need to grow them. They’re just not going to magically appear. So what does that mean? Not sure, maybe the mint has programs tying coins with products that kids are into now (sort of like slipping baseball cards into packs of cigarettes, but only without out cancer and emphysema thing). More outreach stuff for sure, holding exhibitions at museums when kids are on field trips, or special discounts for kids when they use coins.

    I’ve stated this a couple years ago, but I’m 45 now, and I bet I’m still in the young category when it comes to coin collecting, and unfortunately that won’t change as the years continue to roll on without some sort of Mint intervention.

  20. Mint News Blog says

    Good morning, gents (and ladies, if any are in this comment thread). This is a quick note to remind everyone to keep it clean when commenting on Mint News Blog. Abusive language will not be tolerated, and posts containing it will be edited or removed.

    What constitutes “abusive language”? Words and phrases that, whether in content or general tone, would hurt the feelings of a completely innocent person who’s just here to learn from your collective wisdom about coins.

    With respect to race, gender, religion, and other matters of identity: Here’s an example. Imagine a nine-year-old African American girl who’s really excited about bringing her grandpa’s nickel collection to class. She happened to find this blog and is looking for any information that can help her presentation. If she’s going to feel hurt and bewildered when she reads a comment, that comment is gone.

    With respect to adult themes: Imagine a stranger saying the words to your five-year-old grandchild. If that makes you uncomfortable, you should delete the language, because you can be sure I will.

    With respect to politics: The Internet has a million places that welcome political fisticuffs. This is not one of them. This is not someone’s living room; it’s a place of business. A freewheeling, lively place of business, with challenging discourse (more than 116,000 comments to date!), but a place of business nonetheless. If I think your comment will scare off that nice young couple who just walked in, I’m deleting it.

    I’m honored to be the editor for this site, and most days I feel like I’ve walked in on a roundtable discussion hosted by experts. But I have a responsibility to all of MNB’s readers, both regular and occasional. Moreover, the less time I need to spend policing comments, the more time I have to hunt for interesting content.

    Many thanks,
    Diana

  21. data dave says

    Diana, Thanks for laying out the guidelines. Plenty of other places for someone to go if they want to post about things other than coins.

  22. Sith says

    @Diana, Thank you…

    Hopefully this does not fall under that category, but some of the statements want to turn the US Mint into the Perth Mint or RCM. Animals on coins, and Hi Ho Silver, next I will read we need Darth Vader, on our coins.

  23. Mint News Blog says

    @Sith — Critical remarks about the Mint, MNB, and society at large will always be welcome! They might not be enjoyable for the targets of the criticism, of course, but as long as they are constructive they are necessary. Long-winded rants even have their place, as long as they aren’t hurtful to individuals or groups.

    Your comment about the U.S. Mint vs. the RCM and others raises some interesting questions. Where is the balancing point between, on the one hand, the dignity and prestige of U.S. coinage, and, on the other, the Mint’s need to generate revenue? And when it comes to mintage, product, and household-order limits, does the Mint have a greater responsibility to ensure that everyone who wants to buy a product gets a chance, or to guarantee the numismatic resale value for purchasers? In other words, at what point does the tail start wagging the dog? (This one has always puzzled me; perhaps @Dennis Tucker can clarify?)

    P.S. — If I ever find a Sith Lord collector coin, I promise you will be the first to know about it. 😉

  24. Jeff says

    The way I see it as once enthusiasm to collect physical coinage was fun, it now not. My idea would be digital coinage. My 10 year old has a cell phone on it all the time. You ha v e to go where there at. So NO MORE PHYSICAL COINS LET’S GO DIGITAL MINT GIVEN THAT A TRY.

  25. asherspapa says

    I’m not sure any schemes developed by the Mint, whether they be multi-colored animals on coins or coins apps–are likely to revitalize the hobby. I think that job falls to us–to sharing our passion about coins, their beauty, history and (for some at least) intrinsic value. For my own part, I’ve brought my 10-year old grandson into the fold by seeding him with a variety of coins, starting with the state and atb quarters. More recently, I gave him a pretty strong penny collection consisting of dups after I upgraded coins. His collection is proudly displayed in his bedroom, organized according to his own scheme, and each time I visit, he proudly shows me his new additions. And I continue to add to it. He’ll get the ASE from the Reagan C&C, for example, since I already got mine through a subscription.
    The only way the hobby will rebound is if we bring young people in.

  26. Old Big Bird says

    @Diana – Great to see your comments. This blog has at times gotten way off into left and/or right field.
    Many thanks

  27. So Krates says

    I’m assuming there was a post or posts removed?… hate missing those, they are usually entertaining. I’m disappointed to hear the standard has gone from “keeping it civil” to suitable for a pre-school audience where everybody’s feelings must be protected.

  28. The Kid says

    “Hi Ho Silver” idea might have an image of a Indian Chief on the coin and yes, make the coin out of silver and possibly have a companion coin made out of copper.

    The copper coin might be placed in boxes of Cheerios and be a US Mint limited edition coin with a special advertising budget.

    As far as the silver coin let it be part of the Native American series.
    It would be interesting if the silver coins are used in new works of art by the tribes who Chief is honored. Navajo and Hopi jewelry fashioned using silver coins in years past are very collectable today
    .

  29. Sith says

    @Jeff – I will take a picture of some coins, and even some bills, and you can give me their outdated physical equivalent. I WILL TREASURE YOUR COINS FOREVER , AND THEY WILL BE THE CORNER STONE OF MY COLLECTION. COINS ACTUALLY TOUCHED BY JEFF.

  30. Jeff says

    Jeez big bother watching. I was wondering why Dan resigned. I think I get it Diana the enforcer. Enjoy your political correct blog.

  31. bobo says

    To encourage coin collecting, coins have to become objects of desire. There are different ways to accomplish that. One way would be to do what advertisers do: have elite people become associated with them, perhaps paying 100 top celebs to wear a gold Indian coin around their neck. But a better way to accomplish this would be to harness Gresham’s law, which is to say, basically, that people hoard money with inherent value, and dispose of money with lesser or no inherent value, like federal reserve notes or clad coins. What has inherent value? Silver and gold. We as a nation sorely need a five dollar coin that people will use. Why not make a coin for circulation out of silver again that has the value of five dollars? At the current price, a five dollar coin would weigh a good bit more than an old silver quarter? People would hoard it. That would be the beginning of collecting coins for millions of people.

    Note that many states now have made silver and gold legal tender, including Utah, Texas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Missouri and others. There is a move afoot in the nation to return to the constitution which states that only silver and gold can serve as money in the US. Our present money system is not constitutional and will fail as people flee trashy money and return to sound money. The mint could get ahead of this trend and harness it, by producing a silver coin for circulation once again.

  32. Sith says

    @So Krates – Protecting feeling, and not insulting people are two different thing. Then add the antagonistic, and troll like nature of some posters. For example, there is a poster here who is a self-admitted troll, that disparages everyone, and everything,. At best he makes silly comments, like the mint going digital. The irony being is that he no longer even collect coins. Posters requests to ban these trolls has fallen on deaf ears, but at least hopefully some of their more hostile posts will be deleted.

  33. Drew S says

    I bought some specific coins for my kids. I picked up the 2016 Thor from the Perth Mint Norse Gods collection. For my girl I got her another Perth Mint Astrological Series Year of the Rabbit for her berth. Who knows what they’ll think of these coins down the road, I’d love it if my girl wanted to make hers into a pendant.

    All I know is every coin that I have seen and thought maybe my kids might like that design has Not come from the U.S. Mint.

  34. cagcrisp says

    @Sith, “… some of the statements want to turn the US Mint into the Perth Mint or RCM. Animals on coins, and Hi Ho Silver, next I will read we need Darth Vader, on our coins.” I agree completely…

    @Diana, “Where is the balancing point between, on the one hand, the dignity and prestige of U.S. coinage”

    I don’t think the dignity and prestige of the U.S. coinage should Ever be compromised for Any reason.

    “.., and, on the other, the Mint’s need to generate revenue?”

    IF the Mint wants to increase sales then they need to attack the bullion side. Bullion is bullion and that’s where all the experimentation should occur.

    ” And when it comes to mintage, product, and household-order limits, does the Mint have a greater responsibility to ensure that everyone who wants to buy a product gets a chance, or to guarantee the numismatic resale value for purchasers?”

    The Mint has an Obligation to sell coins to their customers. All their customers. Not select one group of customers over another group. Distribution and sales methods have changed and we need to adjust to the future instead of living in the past. Things are never going to be what they were. You just have to adjust to the future, embrace it and move on.

    Without a viable secondary market you eventually have no primary market and eventually you end up with the situation we currently are in with a decreasing customer base.

    Gimmicks never work in the long run…

  35. Sith says

    @Drew S – No argument on that, but we are talking about revitalizing coin collecting. Have any of those purchases translated into any of your children actually collecting coins? IMHO coins with history or a story is the better way to go, then when you add the astronomical markups that the Perth Mint charges for these coins, and they fact that they most likely will only be worth spot price in a few years.

    As a FYI I put together a collection of world proof\bullion coins from the birth year of my children. I was inspired by APMEX’s ” 1 oz Around the World Bullion Set.” Its made up of bullion\Proof coins so the markup was not that bad, IE if my children don’t like it I’m not out much money, and unlike the niche coin series sold by the Perth Mint, they are widely collected.

  36. cagcrisp says

    Current Sales breakdown for the 2015 Platinum Proof…

    NGC PF68 1 $1,825.00 $1,825.00
    NGC PF69 30 $2,003.99 $60,119.75
    NGC PF70 28 $3,102.14 $86,859.90
    PCGS PR69 26 $2,032.15 $52,836.00
    PCGS PR70 48 $3,249.30 $155,966.50
    OGP 517 $1,963.83 $1,015,302.43

    Totals 650 $2,112.17 $1,372,909.58

  37. Mint News Blog says

    @So Krates, if we wanted to make the blog suitable for a preschool audience, we’d have to delete 99.999% of the existing posts because the preschoolers would die of boredom. 🙂

    @Jeff, my rule of thumb is this: if I hold my tongue because of another person’s feelings, I’m being kind. If I hold my tongue because I’m afraid of how I’ll look if I speak, I’m being politically correct. My goal for this forum is the former, not the latter; if you don’t agree, that’s a Y.P., not an M.P. Don’t push me.

  38. Tony says

    I like to compare the decline in coin collecting to baseball card collecting. In the beginning, collecting baseball cards was fun. In early 90’s, it baseball cards became a business. Special insert cards, autograph cards, game-worn jersey cards and etc. Reselling these limited cards for great profits. So coin collecting now has become a business. Reselling short mintage, quick sellouts on the secondary market for profit. Who wouldn’t want to profit from a business?

  39. baldwin says

    I think if the mint wants to expand it’s base, then they need to push Congress to eliminate the commemorative programs, and allow the mint to explore silver coinage at will. The mint then should look into creative coinage that is historically notable and timely. There are a vast array of topics the mint could issue as timely bullion coins (as cagcrisp keeps stating), and the mint wouldn’t need guidance from special interest groups to deploy them.

  40. cycleryder says

    Interesting Title and conversation in the comments section. But from my perspective, if you want to attract NEW customers, then the Mint needs to figure out how to RETAIN the OLD customers FIRST. There probably a few reasons why certain populations are on the decline, but for me as a 10 year customer, the main reason why I am considering selling my entire collection and ending my relationship with the Mint is because of QUALITY and CUSTOMER SERVICE issues. Of the 15 or so coins I have received this year alone I have returned 14 of them for being damaged. One coin I had to return 3 separate times and they finally got it right on the 4th try. Who in their right mind would put up with this kind of treatment when you pay hundreds to thousands for one coin? I am tired of receiving coins that were damaged during the minting process, but were also already delivered to at least one other person prior to arriving at my house. I am tired of coins rattling around in their plastic sleeves after already being opened and examined by somebody. I am tired of receiving coins with the packaging material is already misaligned, a clear indicator that someone else has already finger fuddled the coin. I am tired of being a second rate citizen to all the coin dealers who get the first crack at receiving certain limited mintages long before the rest of us, so that they can select the ones that will slab out at 70, and return the rest of them to the mint so they can send them out to us without checking the quality or even making sure the packaging is in order. For the life of me I cant figure out why this is not a topic of discussion in order to address the future of the mint. If the mint is serious about retaining customers like me they have to address the issues in my post, or I will be one the statistics mentioned in the article.

  41. Sith says

    @Tony – That s an old discussion. The TPGs who initially saved coin collecting, are in the opinion of many here (me included,) are now in the name of increasing their profits, setting the hobby up for failure. It almost seems like people collect labels, not coins, and just like what happened with comic book collectors, when these “coin” collectors try to sell their SP-70 coin with “the First Strike and Mercanti signature attributes” label, and discover that rather than the 1K+ they paid for it, people are only willing to pay $250 for the actual coin…

  42. Give Me Da Money Plz says

    I completely understand being respectful and keeping it civil, but we do have lots of topics we discuss that are related to coins, but do not have to do with coins per se. There is some issues that are political in nature, such as monetary policy and politically correct designs on coinage, that many of us feel the need to have calm and healthy debates about. Many of us have previously made numerous references to cigarettes when talking about coin related topics, especially when recounting events that happened over fifty years ago. We have also had long discussions about scamming, theft by mint and postal employees, muggings, credit card and bank fraud, and numerous other topics that have significant interest to many us. Nobody can “hurt your feelings.” That is because your feelings have to do with how you react to someone else’s words or actions. You decide how you are going to respond. You can brush it off and turn your other cheek, get mad and start flaming the person, or start crying and run to your “safe space.” I feel that if my comment is sensitive, but the comment is still respectful and civil, and your “feelings are hurt,” how you react should be your problem. I believe that demanding our conversations be suitable for my “five-year-old grandchild” is not realistic. In fact, since you brought it up, I would never allow my “five-year-old grandchild” anywhere near the internet. Because of the fact I risk upsetting some fellow members of this blog, including the moderator, I would like to say before you “edit or remove” my comment or start flaming me, I am merely pointing out that many aspects of this blog are not suitable for young kids and the fact that I should not be responsible for someone else’s reaction to my posts if my posts are respectful and civil. If any of my posts are not respectful or civil, please edit or remove it. I still believe that direct insults, bad language, and unruly behavior should not be tolerated. But just because I might post something that people may find sensitive or disagree with should not be grounds for removal. I believe that we are experiencing more and more of the Newspeak that George Orwell talked about in his book 1984. I still believe in removing posts that are clearly off topic or not related to coins. I am just attempting to point out the grey area where it may not be so clear whether the post is related to our discussion or not. Thank you for respecting my opinion and even though I might disagree with your opinion, I promise to respect it.

  43. Give Me Da Money Plz says

    After typing my last post. I scrolled up and found out Mint News Blog posted something that would be applicable to my post. I retract the comments I made about preschoolers.

  44. Give Me Da Money Plz says

    I also retract my statements about young kids and my “five-year-old grandchild.”

  45. Tinto says

    @Diana

    The Mint says their collector customer base is shrinking since the end of the Statehood quarters program … did the Mint inform the participants as to whether they had made attempts to understand and perhaps try to reverse the trend?

  46. KCSO says

    As I sit here in London with tooth picks in my eye lids from the jet lag catching up on my MNB.., I must admit..,

    Mint News Blog says, @So Krates, if we wanted to make the blog suitable for a preschool audience, we’d have to delete 99.999% of the existing posts because the preschoolers would die of boredom.

    ..LMAO – this the funniest thing I’ve read on this blog for weeks – Touche’

    Yes, we (collectively) need to keep this fun & lighthearted.., it’s a hobby after all.., with an intense educational side that is certainly NOT TAUGHT anywhere else (trust me, it’s not) – collectively we share a passion for collecting various forms of coinage that WE ALL enjoy and seriously, at the end of the day, we’re all on the same Team.

    On the previous thread one poster commented that the US should migrate to the $5 bill and subordinates to coinage – I Agree, so much. But do it classy.

    I’m sitting here with a pocket full of thick diameter £ 1s with Reverses of London Bridge, dragons, and castles WITH reeded edges AND edge lettering – it’s impressive. I really like it and for some reason, it’s so much easier to spend. The US needs to make the migration to coinage like the English have and do it with impressive style.., just one geeky collector’s opinion.

    Cheerio!

  47. Jeff says

    DIANA there are much better run blogs than this so i have options unlike you your here to serve . So continue your patrol.

  48. Mint News Blog says

    @Give Me Da Money Plz — (Replying to this and your subsequent comments.) It seems we’re pretty much on the same page. As you noticed, I don’t mean that we’re writing content for children to enjoy, just that hateful content has no place here. I for one believe that any topic, no matter how sensitive, can be discussed by parties with opposing viewpoints if both parties are thoughtful and respectful. (I also believe it’s better to have those discussions and occasionally fail than it is to avoid those discussions all together, but that’s a soapbox for another day.)

    As to the subject matter, thank heavens your conversations range into banking, politics, muggings, economics, fraud, and so forth. If I were limited to the Mint’s catalog for blog subjects, I’d soon be out of a job!

  49. Mint News Blog says

    This would be a question for @Dennis Tucker, who is more informed on the Mint’s m.o. and has spent vastly more time than I have in the company of the Mint’s PTBs. Dennis, your thoughts?

  50. says

    Cag, care run a Guesstimate on the numbers of days until Obi-Wan is ‘outta here’ ?

    It’s Wednesday, so I say 3
    😝

  51. cagcrisp says

    “The Mint has fewer active customers (in 2008 its customer base was above 1,200,000; today it’s less than 500,000).”

    Active customers? I would like to know how many ‘active customers’ have been added because of household limits.

    I know I had to add some. Last year I was responsible for adding 6 accounts for the household limit of 2 for Eisenhower.

    This year I was responsible for adding 4 more accounts because of the household limit of 1 for the SLQ.

    SO…When you look at ‘active customers’ it actually should be active accounts vs. customers. One customer can control numerous accounts.

    We all know of active dealers that has a Large data base of accounts that purchase for one customer.

    OF all the friends/family that have set up accounts for me, None would purchase a coin directly from the Mint if they had to pay for the coin.

    SO…for me, when I leave, 11 ‘active customers’ go with me. You multiply that by others in the same position and you see that the data base is skewed…

  52. cagcrisp says

    @KCSO, LOL

    Obi-Wan is a suicide by police.

    I read a lot of other coin blogs and will gladly trade him for a player to be named later…

  53. Erik H says

    So the mint ships me an item using the wrong service and it automatically gets returned (not by my choice) and now I’m responsible for paying the original shipping? They still owe me money for “free shipping ” from Black Friday two years ago. Looks like I have to call my CC company again to protest the mint’s BS.

    Like cycleryder said, they are causing customers to quit or in my case spend money on coins from other world mint products.

  54. says

    Hello, Tinto.

    As you note, the 2007/08-and-beyond downturn started as the Mint’s State quarter program was nearing its end. The program had been fading in popularity for a while by then.

    Of course, other factors were in play at that time, too — the end of the Mint’s general advertising in 2007/08, the collapse of the housing market, the onset of the Great Recession, the dramatic rise in the price of silver and gold, the shortage and rationing of American Eagle blanks in 2010 and 2011.

    To me, the end of general advertising seem like a pretty big factor when you see sales declining afterward. Not the only factor, but we typically think of marketing and advertising as driving forces for sales.

  55. MarkInFlorida says

    If the Mint wants to get kids into coins, they could mint one out of every million cent coins with something different on it, mixed into circulation, and since only a couple thousand would be made each year they would be worth a lot, and some kids could get rich searching cents. Collectors could spend some there wheat cents, and dealers could release some old Indian cents into circulation, and maybe some kids would be hooked.

  56. Hawkster says

    But KCSO, as per your 4:07 post, in regard to keeping this Blog “fun and lighthearted”: Didn’t you previously chide me for doing just that? Yes, it’s just a hobby, not a life and death situation.

  57. Dustyroads says

    Dennis, Advertising is an important part of any business model, however, in the case of the US Mint I believe the price of Au after 2008 was probably the main reason why the hard line collectors took a back seat. I also believe that while the present base is becoming more comfortable with prices we should see the base cycle back up. I think we’re all wanting to see just where the floor is for prices still, so we may be in this slump for another few years.

  58. MarkInFlorida says

    A while back people mentioned that private mint that filed bankruptcy, and it sounded like people were missing their orders, but I’m getting emails from them still selling. Anyone know what’s going on?

  59. VA Bob says

    The Mint is way off in it’s analysis of why Chinese in their 30’s are increasingly buying coins as compared to the US.

    The difference is, Chinese in this age are PROUD of their countries emergence as a world power, economically and militarily. They never experienced this before in their modern, post revolution history. Proud people want items that memorialize their rise to what they perceive is greatness.

    Now here’s what young Americans are bombarded with here in America. They are flooded with how bad the US is, that we are the cause of much of the worlds problems. We pollute, we are warming the planet, we should be ashamed of our wealth. WE are racists, bigots, for this against that. One can see it everyday, and it’s worse in our institutes of higher learning. Not here to argue the points, just that younger folks have little to commemorate via coin collecting. They are not overly optimistic about our future. Quite a disparity between the two demographics.

  60. Barry says

    Those criticizing putting animals on coins should offer a better idea regarding designs rather than dismiss the notion out of hand and have no alternative suggestions. Maybe they forgot we have a buffalo on a coin. Some of the ATB’s and state quarters have wildlife on them. No doubt they themselves have bought some of those coins.

  61. cagcrisp says

    @Barry, “Maybe they forgot we have a buffalo on a coin. Some of the ATB’s and state quarters have wildlife on them. No doubt they themselves have bought some of those coins.”

    The Buffalo is a Classic design. I’ve bought several Gold Buffalo proofs. I bought a BULLION turkey puck. That’s not a numismatic coin. I’ve never bought any state quarters.

    I’ve bought all the Classic designs. IF you want wildlife you can get all you want from the RCM.

    There is a difference between numismatic coins and Bullion coins…

  62. So Krates says

    @ MarkinFlorida – If you are referring to NWTM they have been operating under a court appointed bankruptcy trustee and still doing business. The guy who runs About.Ag keeps up pretty well with the case. See latest info here: http://about.ag/NWTMint.htm

  63. MN Printer says

    To Jeff @ 4:09 PM. Honestly, I would love to see you leave this blog.

    To Diane, keep up the good work.

  64. Tony says

    @Sith – I’ve been on this blog on and off for about a year. So if don’t know every discussions that has taken place in this blog, so you the better informed.

  65. says

    I guess one of the reasons it’s going down is because lots of people no longer stack metals as they already have some for their retirement and maybe the young ones are not so into precious metal stacking at all, but those are just thoughts…

  66. Mint News Blog says

    @Give Me Da Money Plz, thank YOU for your detailed reply earlier. That’s the kind of disagreement that makes this blog such a great place — thoughtful, in-depth, respectful, inquisitive, and centered on facts instead of hot air. (I can understand why Dan genuinely regretted giving up the blog.) I’m glad it turned out we were in agreement, but even more glad about the quality of the disagreement. 🙂

  67. earthling says

    DETROIT (AP) – Stopping to pick up a stray penny off the ground may not seem worth the effort, yet one bank is trying to change that mindset by placing 100 fake pennies across the country worth $1,000 apiece.

    Ally Bank says it is hoping to encourage Americans to look for opportunities to save through its “Lucky Penny” promotion, which launched this week. The lucky pennies carry a copper color like real pennies, but feature the Detroit-based bank’s logo instead of Abraham Lincoln’s head. The flip side of the coin lists its value at 100,000 cents.

    The pennies have been placed in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Washington, D.C., Miami, Denver, Detroit, San Diego, Charlotte, North Carolina, and Austin, Texas.

    Here’s an interesting filler I just found. Maybe this will help remove all the cents off the ground? We can only hope.

    Good luck to anyone who lives in a “hot zone” and might be inclined to join in the hunt.

    😃

  68. .John Q. Coinage says

    Saving oppotunities at a BANK….0y what the heck are they thinking, why even bother! Banks pay a stunning .o5% on savings & are looking to go negative. Cash in mattress is the same, or better as would AU * AG buried out back. Banks are just a scam, except for the home loan industry a bank will gladly pay you .o5$ on yout $100k deposit, yet charge John Fool 28.9% on his VISA, how is that even legal!? Because banks do whatever they want. The Mint needs to update designs, make a $5 coin & also try to get Congrss to pass proper coin legislation, on circulating & commems…. A silver center $5 coin would get some interest & publicity….maybe 1/20 oz silver plug……

  69. Tom P. - MA says

    I think the mint blew it with the 50 states issues. The quarters were not minted to demand, they were minted so that every state could be found. They made sure there were no rarities. I think the mintage of each is over 200 million.

    Yes while it may have been cool to assemble a complete set, that set is still worth only face value, and will only be worth face value years from now. That discourages further collecting. I think interest would have been higher if say the Ohio P issue was tough to find. If every item in a set is “common”, why collect it?

    Definitely have cut off dates for all mint issues. Again if you make everything common and easily available, where is the challenge?

  70. Jesse Livermore says

    this is so easy for the Mint to solve, for the love of God.

    1- FIRST, do NOT alienate your core audience because you think you need to reach out to younger kids, minorities , your FIRST priority, US Mint, is to your core audience, the faithful group that is profitable and at the CORE of your business

    2- Find out first what coins your core likes. Continue to cultivate them, you lose your core, US Mint you are DONE. It will cost you more money to find NEW customers versus cultivating and keeping your core audience, rule number one of marketing.

    3- Once you have managed to keep your core audience, THEN start to work from the bulls eye OUT. Now here is where you to try to reach out to your former customers. Find out WHY they stopped buying. Was it because they no longer collect coins? Is it because of economic conditions? OR was it that they STILL are collecting but have moved on from the US Mint and dont like current offerings?

    It is pretty clear to see the US Mint is attacking their declining customer base problem the wrong way.

    I am in the younger age group. I have spent a decade buying US Mint products, gold and silver proof eagles, Buffs, heck I own many of the early proof Buffs, I have bought a few of the 5 oz pucks. But here is the deal-

    I dont care for dead presidents or their spouses. I dont care for current presidents. I dont care about US Marshal Service. I have enough gold and silver proof Eagles. For me, I see nothing I want. Now, seeing this article, now I see why they did some of these series, their customers are much older than me. So ok, thats good, have these offerings for your core audience, your older age group.

    But now, how about reaching out to the younger age group who also has spent with you in the past and is still collecting. I have moved on to other mints because of the variety. I like animal coins as an example. When are you, the US Mint, going to do silver and gold sets of like “Animals of the Great Plains” or Animals of the Yosemite? When are you going to do a wildlife series based on american birds? When will you devote time to the wildlife of this country??? For gods sake, Canada does it, why not you Mr US Mint? What I liked about the ATB quarters was that some had birds on them as an example. Why not expand on that theme?

    Also, its time the US Mint starts a regular series, something based on “friendship series” with other world mints. Why has the US Mint not worked together with the China Mint to make some Panda/American eagle gold and silver set?????? Why is this so difficult for you guys to figure out? I have a million ideas for you guys if you just would listen to your customers who have left you but still collecting. Why not expand the bullion coin offerings? Offer a new type of silver dollar, 1 oz. How about some bullion coins based on another animal? Or how about some bullion coins based on

    Some things you will not be able to change. Economic conditions in this country are not improving. Less and less folks have disposable incomes for hobbies. Coin collecting is a very expensive hobby, I am sure if I had other pressing bills, I would not be dropping thousands and thousands yearly on coins. So it should be no surprise that after the Great Recession, a lot of customers simply disappeared.

    I hope the US Mint gets its act together and expands their customer base because other mints are eating their lunch and getting my money.

  71. Buzz Killington says

    I understand that Topps is now selling “digital” baseball cards, which are pictures saved into an app with some kind of limited availability. I think this sort of works for baseball cards — if you want pictures of baseball related stuff, they are not hard to find. Similarly, player statistics also used to be printed on the back of baseball cards. Now, also not hard to find. Do we need physical baseball cards anymore? (Obviously, we never needed them, but that’s beside the point.)

    Digital coins are essentially the cash-less society, which is not really a crazy idea, but physical bullion will always have its place, and so will PM coins, even if there are no collectors anymore.

    The question about whether new collectors are being made is an interesting one, but I do believe there is something genetic about accumulating and collecting “stuff” of one kind of another. And unless someone has a better idea I’m not thinking of, coins are still the king of the kinds of “stuff” that people can collect.

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